1
00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:08,250
foreign

2
00:01:02,330 --> 00:00:25,730
[Music]

3
00:01:06,350 --> 00:01:04,250
hello and welcome to the show on Martin

4
00:01:08,630 --> 00:01:06,360
Willis your host and we have a great

5
00:01:10,570 --> 00:01:08,640
show for you tonight I love this guest

6
00:01:15,410 --> 00:01:10,580
Kevin Randall he's been on many times

7
00:01:17,030 --> 00:01:15,420
and I often go to Kevin's blogs

8
00:01:19,370 --> 00:01:17,040
um when I want to you know look things

9
00:01:21,289 --> 00:01:19,380
over and like something's new to me or

10
00:01:23,990 --> 00:01:21,299
whatever and I want to check it out and

11
00:01:27,910 --> 00:01:24,000
I often uh go there and a different

12
00:01:30,890 --> 00:01:27,920
perspective and it's uh Kevin

13
00:01:32,450 --> 00:01:30,900
randall.blogspot.com and so we're going

14
00:01:36,649 --> 00:01:32,460
to be talking about a couple different

15
00:01:38,270 --> 00:01:36,659
things and what I did tell Uh Kevin this

16
00:01:39,649 --> 00:01:38,280
is uh what I did tell Kevin is that I

17
00:01:42,289 --> 00:01:39,659
didn't want to talk about

18
00:01:44,390 --> 00:01:42,299
ahead of time his opinion on the late

19
00:01:46,850 --> 00:01:44,400
breaking news I wanted to talk about it

20
00:01:49,429 --> 00:01:46,860
fresh uh as soon as he's on the show so

21
00:01:52,249 --> 00:01:49,439
we're going to do that our

22
00:01:54,830 --> 00:01:52,259
our blog this week by Kevin Lear is part

23
00:01:58,730 --> 00:01:54,840
two of did Einstein inspected crashed

24
00:02:00,590 --> 00:01:58,740
UFO and aliens at Roswell part two and

25
00:02:02,810 --> 00:02:00,600
next week

26
00:02:05,030 --> 00:02:02,820
um he's going to have the final uh

27
00:02:08,870 --> 00:02:05,040
version of that the final segment and

28
00:02:10,969 --> 00:02:08,880
that is going to be about a tape uh that

29
00:02:13,490 --> 00:02:10,979
is very interesting and I'm not saying

30
00:02:16,190 --> 00:02:13,500
that I'm not saying that he's thinking

31
00:02:18,949 --> 00:02:16,200
or that any one of us are thinking that

32
00:02:20,630 --> 00:02:18,959
that really happened it's just a rumor

33
00:02:22,850 --> 00:02:20,640
that's been going around

34
00:02:25,309 --> 00:02:22,860
some of the people that I've had out

35
00:02:27,350 --> 00:02:25,319
there and had other rumors started or

36
00:02:28,910 --> 00:02:27,360
things that weren't so accurate may have

37
00:02:31,309 --> 00:02:28,920
been involved in starting that so I

38
00:02:33,530 --> 00:02:31,319
don't know what's going on and uh so the

39
00:02:36,650 --> 00:02:33,540
final uh segment of that will be next

40
00:02:38,330 --> 00:02:36,660
week uh Kevin Randall has I can't

41
00:02:40,070 --> 00:02:38,340
remember how many I think it's a hundred

42
00:02:43,970 --> 00:02:40,080
books or more he's written it something

43
00:02:47,750 --> 00:02:43,980
like that uh very prolific author and he

44
00:02:50,509 --> 00:02:47,760
has a uh an updated version of his 2000

45
00:02:53,270 --> 00:02:50,519
uh book and it's about UFOs over

46
00:02:56,930 --> 00:02:53,280
Washington DC that happened back in 1952

47
00:02:58,790 --> 00:02:56,940
and we'll be discussing that as well and

48
00:03:01,070 --> 00:02:58,800
thank you all the people that support

49
00:03:03,130 --> 00:03:01,080
the show anyone can do that the

50
00:03:07,009 --> 00:03:03,140
information's on our website podcast

51
00:03:09,949 --> 00:03:07,019
ufo.com and here we go with Kevin

52
00:03:12,229 --> 00:03:09,959
welcome Kevin well thank you I'm glad to

53
00:03:14,750 --> 00:03:12,239
be here once again that's right I think

54
00:03:16,850 --> 00:03:14,760
the last time you were on wasn't it my

55
00:03:18,890 --> 00:03:16,860
10th anniversary so it's been a little

56
00:03:22,449 --> 00:03:18,900
while it's been a while but there's been

57
00:03:28,910 --> 00:03:25,309
periodically yes that's right that's

58
00:03:31,630 --> 00:03:28,920
right yeah but welcome back and uh so as

59
00:03:34,610 --> 00:03:31,640
I mentioned in the beginning of the show

60
00:03:38,089 --> 00:03:34,620
uh that you and I have not discussed

61
00:03:40,250 --> 00:03:38,099
your thoughts on The Whistleblower and I

62
00:03:42,410 --> 00:03:40,260
have no idea what you think I do tell

63
00:03:46,250 --> 00:03:42,420
people a lot of times that you know you

64
00:03:49,250 --> 00:03:46,260
really take a uh perspective of uh

65
00:03:51,890 --> 00:03:49,260
Clarity and also you're very cautious

66
00:03:55,009 --> 00:03:51,900
when you look at a lot of things and

67
00:03:57,470 --> 00:03:55,019
someone wrote me the other day like um

68
00:04:00,229 --> 00:03:57,480
kind of in I don't want to say kind of

69
00:04:03,110 --> 00:04:00,239
they were a little upset at something I

70
00:04:04,610 --> 00:04:03,120
said during the show perhaps

71
00:04:06,649 --> 00:04:04,620
um and they said well you should get

72
00:04:08,570 --> 00:04:06,659
Kevin Randall on to talk about Roswell

73
00:04:10,550 --> 00:04:08,580
and they said well you don't really know

74
00:04:12,350 --> 00:04:10,560
what Kevin's latest view on Roswell is

75
00:04:13,850 --> 00:04:12,360
so maybe we'll ask I'll ask you that

76
00:04:16,310 --> 00:04:13,860
question

77
00:04:18,770 --> 00:04:16,320
well I've pretty well uh

78
00:04:19,969 --> 00:04:18,780
explained my views on Roswell in the

79
00:04:22,550 --> 00:04:19,979
last few months they did a book called

80
00:04:25,850 --> 00:04:22,560
of course Roswell in the 21st century

81
00:04:27,050 --> 00:04:25,860
which looked at it with lots and lots of

82
00:04:28,670 --> 00:04:27,060
footnotes and where all the information

83
00:04:31,550 --> 00:04:28,680
came from and then I did another book

84
00:04:33,710 --> 00:04:31,560
called understanding Roswell which kind

85
00:04:37,010 --> 00:04:33,720
of modified the the first book and I

86
00:04:41,210 --> 00:04:39,469
I I guess my unhappiness with the

87
00:04:42,950 --> 00:04:41,220
weather Roswell case had gone when I

88
00:04:44,749 --> 00:04:42,960
wrote uh

89
00:04:47,030 --> 00:04:44,759
Roswell in the 21st century people

90
00:04:48,590 --> 00:04:47,040
thought I was repudiating the Roswell

91
00:04:50,450 --> 00:04:48,600
case and it really wasn't that I was

92
00:04:52,249 --> 00:04:50,460
really saying that the

93
00:04:54,530 --> 00:04:52,259
data that we have the information that

94
00:04:56,570 --> 00:04:54,540
we had the witnesses the the

95
00:04:59,150 --> 00:04:56,580
documentation was not as robust as it

96
00:05:00,890 --> 00:04:59,160
had been 10 or 15 years earlier because

97
00:05:03,409 --> 00:05:00,900
we'd learned some of the Witnesses were

98
00:05:04,790 --> 00:05:03,419
less than candid with us and there were

99
00:05:07,370 --> 00:05:04,800
other people interjecting themselves

100
00:05:09,590 --> 00:05:07,380
into the case that made it um

101
00:05:11,629 --> 00:05:09,600
or took us in directions we didn't need

102
00:05:14,030 --> 00:05:11,639
to go but what I was really saying we

103
00:05:15,830 --> 00:05:14,040
just did where I once was absolutely

104
00:05:17,150 --> 00:05:15,840
convinced it was extraterrestrial I had

105
00:05:18,469 --> 00:05:17,160
taken a step back from that and said

106
00:05:20,749 --> 00:05:18,479
well

107
00:05:22,909 --> 00:05:20,759
the the evidence

108
00:05:26,029 --> 00:05:22,919
doesn't prove the Extraterrestrial I

109
00:05:28,550 --> 00:05:26,039
tilt in that direction because when you

110
00:05:31,189 --> 00:05:28,560
look for the explanation of what Phelan

111
00:05:32,450 --> 00:05:31,199
Roswell there's nothing terrestrial that

112
00:05:33,590 --> 00:05:32,460
you can find everything's been

113
00:05:36,170 --> 00:05:33,600
eliminated

114
00:05:38,210 --> 00:05:36,180
and then do you automatically go to the

115
00:05:40,249 --> 00:05:38,220
Extraterrestrial and is that the proper

116
00:05:41,390 --> 00:05:40,259
way way to do this and and I was saying

117
00:05:44,090 --> 00:05:41,400
now I want something a little more

118
00:05:46,010 --> 00:05:44,100
concrete than just this leap of logic we

119
00:05:48,469 --> 00:05:46,020
cannot find an explanation here on Earth

120
00:05:50,270 --> 00:05:48,479
therefore it must be and I'm I'm

121
00:05:51,409 --> 00:05:50,280
thinking there may be something and I

122
00:05:53,390 --> 00:05:51,419
don't know what it would be and I don't

123
00:05:55,330 --> 00:05:53,400
know why it's to be classified some 75

124
00:05:57,950 --> 00:05:55,340
years later but

125
00:05:59,570 --> 00:05:57,960
there may be something that was going on

126
00:06:01,430 --> 00:05:59,580
in Roswell that we didn't know about

127
00:06:03,290 --> 00:06:01,440
that would explain it completely and

128
00:06:05,150 --> 00:06:03,300
totally unlike the nonsensical project

129
00:06:07,370 --> 00:06:05,160
Mogul explanation they came up with

130
00:06:08,570 --> 00:06:07,380
right but I don't know what that would

131
00:06:10,070 --> 00:06:08,580
be and I don't know why it would still

132
00:06:11,450 --> 00:06:10,080
be classified and I don't know why the

133
00:06:13,370 --> 00:06:11,460
Air Force wouldn't have trotted that out

134
00:06:16,730 --> 00:06:13,380
in 1995 so we all could have said well

135
00:06:18,110 --> 00:06:16,740
yeah there you go we're done so I look

136
00:06:19,430 --> 00:06:18,120
at all of that stuff I look at the

137
00:06:21,590 --> 00:06:19,440
people who were involved in it the

138
00:06:23,809 --> 00:06:21,600
people we can put there in Roswell at

139
00:06:26,390 --> 00:06:23,819
the time what their backgrounds were

140
00:06:28,670 --> 00:06:26,400
what we know about them

141
00:06:30,350 --> 00:06:28,680
what they were able to tell us and I

142
00:06:32,390 --> 00:06:30,360
look at that and I say well I do not

143
00:06:35,510 --> 00:06:32,400
have an explanation for what Phil we all

144
00:06:37,370 --> 00:06:35,520
agree something fell I now I lean toward

145
00:06:38,629 --> 00:06:37,380
the Extraterrestrial on it but it's not

146
00:06:43,129 --> 00:06:38,639
quite as

147
00:06:46,010 --> 00:06:43,139
adamant as it was 25 years ago based on

148
00:06:48,409 --> 00:06:46,020
the continued research yeah you know

149
00:06:51,890 --> 00:06:48,419
it's uh when something continues on as

150
00:06:54,830 --> 00:06:51,900
long as this it's so hard to separate

151
00:06:57,230 --> 00:06:54,840
the myths that have been repeated over

152
00:06:59,510 --> 00:06:57,240
and over again and printed over and over

153
00:07:01,189 --> 00:06:59,520
again or blogged over and over again or

154
00:07:04,730 --> 00:07:01,199
talked about on TV over and over again

155
00:07:07,909 --> 00:07:04,740
from what really actually happened back

156
00:07:10,550 --> 00:07:07,919
at that time because it takes on a life

157
00:07:13,610 --> 00:07:10,560
of its own you know uh that's coming up

158
00:07:14,930 --> 00:07:13,620
the big yearly event is coming up and

159
00:07:16,909 --> 00:07:14,940
this was one time I was actually

160
00:07:18,590 --> 00:07:16,919
thinking of going and then something

161
00:07:20,629 --> 00:07:18,600
happened to come up and I can't make it

162
00:07:23,510 --> 00:07:20,639
uh have you ever actually been to that

163
00:07:25,430 --> 00:07:23,520
event well many times of course you

164
00:07:28,070 --> 00:07:25,440
would be because you wrote the book in

165
00:07:32,210 --> 00:07:28,080
fact I was invited to be there this year

166
00:07:35,930 --> 00:07:32,220
but given my circumstances I

167
00:07:36,589 --> 00:07:35,940
couldn't commit sure the proper time

168
00:07:38,150 --> 00:07:36,599
um

169
00:07:39,589 --> 00:07:38,160
I could have gone it turned out I could

170
00:07:42,050 --> 00:07:39,599
have gone but I couldn't commit at that

171
00:07:43,850 --> 00:07:42,060
time to it and I didn't think that was

172
00:07:45,469 --> 00:07:43,860
right to commit to something and say and

173
00:07:48,050 --> 00:07:45,479
at the last minute say oh I can't be

174
00:07:52,249 --> 00:07:48,060
there yes but I have been there a number

175
00:07:54,230 --> 00:07:52,259
of times including the big one in 1997.

176
00:07:55,909 --> 00:07:54,240
um and uh I've been back there several

177
00:07:58,309 --> 00:07:55,919
times since then so yeah I've been to

178
00:07:59,930 --> 00:07:58,319
the event the problem I have with the

179
00:08:01,370 --> 00:07:59,940
event and it's nothing against people of

180
00:08:02,749 --> 00:08:01,380
Roswell because I mean they turned it

181
00:08:04,969 --> 00:08:02,759
into more of a

182
00:08:06,710 --> 00:08:04,979
Festival yeah Symposium I guess you'd

183
00:08:07,850 --> 00:08:06,720
say yeah and there's nothing wrong with

184
00:08:09,830 --> 00:08:07,860
that I mean here's something that

185
00:08:12,230 --> 00:08:09,840
happened in their area and they're kind

186
00:08:14,029 --> 00:08:12,240
of celebrating it and of course they're

187
00:08:17,270 --> 00:08:14,039
going to exploit it as much as they can

188
00:08:19,670 --> 00:08:17,280
just as uh other places exploit what

189
00:08:21,950 --> 00:08:19,680
happened around their cities or their

190
00:08:23,390 --> 00:08:21,960
towns in the past so I don't I don't

191
00:08:25,969 --> 00:08:23,400
mind that it's just

192
00:08:28,550 --> 00:08:25,979
um I think the seriousness sometimes get

193
00:08:30,230 --> 00:08:28,560
lost in the festival aspect of it they

194
00:08:31,550 --> 00:08:30,240
put on a lot of programs they bring in a

195
00:08:32,870 --> 00:08:31,560
lot of speakers

196
00:08:33,889 --> 00:08:32,880
um I know Don's going to be there Don

197
00:08:35,930 --> 00:08:33,899
Schmidt's going to be there I think

198
00:08:38,089 --> 00:08:35,940
Travis is going to be there again

199
00:08:40,250 --> 00:08:38,099
and and that sort of thing and you know

200
00:08:42,350 --> 00:08:40,260
what does Travis Walton have to do with

201
00:08:43,550 --> 00:08:42,360
the Roswell UFO crash well really

202
00:08:47,509 --> 00:08:43,560
nothing at all

203
00:08:49,310 --> 00:08:47,519
other than his UFO sighting yes but

204
00:08:51,829 --> 00:08:49,320
they're they're wanting to bring in

205
00:08:53,329 --> 00:08:51,839
people who have some experiences with

206
00:08:55,610 --> 00:08:53,339
UFOs and that sort of thing and I don't

207
00:08:57,170 --> 00:08:55,620
have a problem with that I just look at

208
00:08:59,030 --> 00:08:57,180
we have to look at it from that point of

209
00:09:00,590 --> 00:08:59,040
view and there's a lot of things that go

210
00:09:02,389 --> 00:09:00,600
on

211
00:09:03,889 --> 00:09:02,399
um they're people misunderstand stuff

212
00:09:07,550 --> 00:09:03,899
that's said

213
00:09:11,210 --> 00:09:07,560
and carry on with that and that blows up

214
00:09:12,550 --> 00:09:11,220
into a new part of the myth that really

215
00:09:15,350 --> 00:09:12,560
shouldn't be there it should have been

216
00:09:17,930 --> 00:09:15,360
eliminated a long time ago but we have

217
00:09:20,690 --> 00:09:17,940
to deal with it I just saw a documentary

218
00:09:23,690 --> 00:09:20,700
that was I guess it was made in 2019 I

219
00:09:26,030 --> 00:09:23,700
was do I was doing uh channel surfing

220
00:09:28,970 --> 00:09:26,040
and uh what I call a video lap by the

221
00:09:30,410 --> 00:09:28,980
way and I came across a program where

222
00:09:31,850 --> 00:09:30,420
they were doing the Roswell thing and

223
00:09:34,670 --> 00:09:31,860
talking about this and they were

224
00:09:36,470 --> 00:09:34,680
bringing in the mj-12 documents and yeah

225
00:09:38,750 --> 00:09:36,480
writing them as if they were legitimate

226
00:09:41,210 --> 00:09:38,760
yeah and I think that's certainly not

227
00:09:43,850 --> 00:09:41,220
helpful I think the majority of the UFO

228
00:09:45,230 --> 00:09:43,860
researchers the vast majority of the UFO

229
00:09:46,670 --> 00:09:45,240
researchers understand the md-12

230
00:09:48,650 --> 00:09:46,680
documents are fake

231
00:09:50,509 --> 00:09:48,660
and yet this documentary is presenting

232
00:09:53,150 --> 00:09:50,519
well the document said this we don't

233
00:09:55,190 --> 00:09:53,160
care if somebody made it up

234
00:09:57,470 --> 00:09:55,200
but that that stuff

235
00:09:59,870 --> 00:09:57,480
leads us in a wrong direction and I

236
00:10:02,930 --> 00:09:59,880
don't know how much how many resources

237
00:10:05,269 --> 00:10:02,940
were expended in the attempt to validate

238
00:10:06,650 --> 00:10:05,279
the mj-12 documents and which we had to

239
00:10:08,210 --> 00:10:06,660
do when the documents were presented we

240
00:10:09,949 --> 00:10:08,220
had to validate them we had to vet the

241
00:10:13,250 --> 00:10:09,959
documents are they authentic and if they

242
00:10:15,610 --> 00:10:13,260
are authentic that's great but in the

243
00:10:18,949 --> 00:10:15,620
end of the investigations

244
00:10:20,509 --> 00:10:18,959
we found the poison pills and we know

245
00:10:23,150 --> 00:10:20,519
how it was done

246
00:10:25,370 --> 00:10:23,160
um there was a movie

247
00:10:28,090 --> 00:10:25,380
a number of years ago called Truth and

248
00:10:31,250 --> 00:10:28,100
it was about Dan Rather and the George

249
00:10:32,930 --> 00:10:31,260
W bush National Guard stuff and they had

250
00:10:34,610 --> 00:10:32,940
the documents and all of that stuff and

251
00:10:36,829 --> 00:10:34,620
they're talking about the documents and

252
00:10:41,329 --> 00:10:36,839
at the end of the movie the reporter

253
00:10:43,190 --> 00:10:41,339
who's Mary Mapes was saying to them the

254
00:10:44,690 --> 00:10:43,200
person who if these were fake the person

255
00:10:46,250 --> 00:10:44,700
who faked them had to have an intimate

256
00:10:48,769 --> 00:10:46,260
knowledge of the workings of the Texas

257
00:10:50,750 --> 00:10:48,779
Air National Guard back in that time

258
00:10:53,150 --> 00:10:50,760
frame would have had to study all of

259
00:10:55,250 --> 00:10:53,160
this stuff and I'm thinking no all they

260
00:10:59,210 --> 00:10:55,260
needed was some copies of documents that

261
00:11:02,449 --> 00:10:59,220
that they could retype or add lines to

262
00:11:05,030 --> 00:11:02,459
or do things about that they um

263
00:11:06,829 --> 00:11:05,040
they wanted to move us in that direction

264
00:11:08,030 --> 00:11:06,839
that's what happened with mj-12 it

265
00:11:09,710 --> 00:11:08,040
wasn't somebody had an intimate

266
00:11:12,530 --> 00:11:09,720
knowledge of some of these things it was

267
00:11:15,710 --> 00:11:12,540
somebody who could copy documents and

268
00:11:17,930 --> 00:11:15,720
add a line about mj12 here or a message

269
00:11:19,670 --> 00:11:17,940
about mj-12 there and the documents are

270
00:11:21,170 --> 00:11:19,680
authentic up to the point where you get

271
00:11:22,730 --> 00:11:21,180
that into somebody's retyping it when

272
00:11:24,530 --> 00:11:22,740
you get to the original document The

273
00:11:28,790 --> 00:11:24,540
Source documents you see something's

274
00:11:31,130 --> 00:11:28,800
been added so that does not help UFO

275
00:11:36,410 --> 00:11:31,140
research whatsoever but my point simply

276
00:11:39,590 --> 00:11:36,420
is in today's world 2023

277
00:11:42,410 --> 00:11:39,600
um to me the Roswell case is not as

278
00:11:44,690 --> 00:11:42,420
robust as it had been because of some of

279
00:11:47,810 --> 00:11:44,700
these paths we've gone down but as I say

280
00:11:51,290 --> 00:11:47,820
I still tilt toward the Extraterrestrial

281
00:11:53,530 --> 00:11:51,300
yes getting back to the mj-12 I remember

282
00:11:57,590 --> 00:11:53,540
having discussions with Stanton Friedman

283
00:12:00,410 --> 00:11:57,600
basically giving him my opinion of when

284
00:12:03,769 --> 00:12:00,420
as an appraiser of antiques and art and

285
00:12:06,949 --> 00:12:03,779
documents when I appraised a collection

286
00:12:08,930 --> 00:12:06,959
and I find something that's fake in the

287
00:12:11,630 --> 00:12:08,940
mix all of a sudden I want to look at

288
00:12:13,910 --> 00:12:11,640
everything carefully and most likely

289
00:12:16,790 --> 00:12:13,920
discount the entire collection a lot of

290
00:12:18,829 --> 00:12:16,800
times but Stanton would say and he's and

291
00:12:20,690 --> 00:12:18,839
I kind of said that to him

292
00:12:23,630 --> 00:12:20,700
he didn't really get where I was going

293
00:12:26,210 --> 00:12:23,640
uh because he he would say that some of

294
00:12:28,250 --> 00:12:26,220
them were authentic and I know he did a

295
00:12:30,829 --> 00:12:28,260
ton of research but I mean

296
00:12:34,069 --> 00:12:30,839
my point is why would some of them be

297
00:12:37,069 --> 00:12:34,079
authentic and others not you know it's

298
00:12:39,050 --> 00:12:37,079
either the whole thing or one way or the

299
00:12:41,990 --> 00:12:39,060
other it has to be well in the world of

300
00:12:43,790 --> 00:12:42,000
intelligence if you find out something

301
00:12:48,350 --> 00:12:43,800
has been compromised

302
00:12:50,269 --> 00:12:48,360
by by enemy spies uh what you do is

303
00:12:52,250 --> 00:12:50,279
create a bunch of other documents and

304
00:12:54,230 --> 00:12:52,260
shove it into the pipeline so that you

305
00:12:57,590 --> 00:12:54,240
can just credit the first but batch of

306
00:12:59,629 --> 00:12:57,600
documents I see yeah so but but the

307
00:13:02,269 --> 00:12:59,639
problem with I think the the problem

308
00:13:04,069 --> 00:13:02,279
with the MGA 12 documents the best of

309
00:13:05,569 --> 00:13:04,079
the documents is the Eisenhower briefing

310
00:13:07,610 --> 00:13:05,579
document there's a poison there's a

311
00:13:09,290 --> 00:13:07,620
number of poison pills in there but it's

312
00:13:13,269 --> 00:13:09,300
clear to me that that document was

313
00:13:18,290 --> 00:13:16,069
1952 is is claim for a briefing to

314
00:13:19,550 --> 00:13:18,300
president-elect Eisenhower and one of

315
00:13:20,690 --> 00:13:19,560
the things I couldn't get stand to

316
00:13:22,670 --> 00:13:20,700
understand

317
00:13:24,650 --> 00:13:22,680
is if I'm if I'm

318
00:13:26,210 --> 00:13:24,660
creating a document to bring the

319
00:13:28,910 --> 00:13:26,220
president of the president-elect I'm

320
00:13:31,970 --> 00:13:28,920
going to include all the information and

321
00:13:34,790 --> 00:13:31,980
the mj-12 document eliminates the plane

322
00:13:37,190 --> 00:13:34,800
to San Augustine crash

323
00:13:39,590 --> 00:13:37,200
and I don't understand why that wouldn't

324
00:13:41,389 --> 00:13:39,600
have been there and in fact in the

325
00:13:43,730 --> 00:13:41,399
beginning that was the place you needed

326
00:13:45,350 --> 00:13:43,740
to go because that was where

327
00:13:47,930 --> 00:13:45,360
um the original story talked about

328
00:13:49,970 --> 00:13:47,940
bodies at Roswell there was an original

329
00:13:51,949 --> 00:13:49,980
story talking about bodies we got to

330
00:13:53,569 --> 00:13:51,959
that point later but there was Plains of

331
00:13:56,509 --> 00:13:53,579
San Agustin so that would be the more

332
00:13:58,490 --> 00:13:56,519
important crash and Stan told me that he

333
00:14:00,410 --> 00:13:58,500
thought that because there were bodies

334
00:14:01,970 --> 00:14:00,420
there that information was withheld from

335
00:14:05,810 --> 00:14:01,980
the president I said that makes no sense

336
00:14:07,730 --> 00:14:05,820
to me and and I I and I hesitate to say

337
00:14:09,829 --> 00:14:07,740
I worked with Carl flock

338
00:14:12,050 --> 00:14:09,839
um on an investigation of the Barney

339
00:14:13,430 --> 00:14:12,060
Barnett tale and the planes of San

340
00:14:14,990 --> 00:14:13,440
Agustin really boils down to a single

341
00:14:16,550 --> 00:14:15,000
witness Marty Barnett

342
00:14:19,310 --> 00:14:16,560
and there's really nothing to connect it

343
00:14:21,829 --> 00:14:19,320
to the Roswell crash in 1947 other than

344
00:14:24,350 --> 00:14:21,839
what his boss I think it was in the time

345
00:14:26,030 --> 00:14:24,360
of 1947 but his boss's memory wasn't

346
00:14:27,350 --> 00:14:26,040
very good at that point

347
00:14:29,030 --> 00:14:27,360
but

348
00:14:30,170 --> 00:14:29,040
um I you know I was talking to Stan I

349
00:14:32,150 --> 00:14:30,180
said there was no crash on the places

350
00:14:34,250 --> 00:14:32,160
well prove it to me so I sent him a copy

351
00:14:36,110 --> 00:14:34,260
of the mj-12 document John that was a

352
00:14:36,970 --> 00:14:36,120
great joke because it's not mentioned

353
00:14:42,889 --> 00:14:36,980
there

354
00:14:44,689 --> 00:14:42,899
go but I think you know that's that's

355
00:14:47,269 --> 00:14:44,699
one of the problems we run into is with

356
00:14:49,670 --> 00:14:47,279
mj12 I think that the original documents

357
00:14:51,829 --> 00:14:49,680
from an anonymous source

358
00:14:54,170 --> 00:14:51,839
well you can't vet them that way they we

359
00:14:56,689 --> 00:14:54,180
got we got photographs of them not the

360
00:14:58,670 --> 00:14:56,699
original documents Rusty ink you can't

361
00:15:00,769 --> 00:14:58,680
test the paper you can't do this you

362
00:15:02,629 --> 00:15:00,779
can't do that all you can do is look at

363
00:15:04,370 --> 00:15:02,639
what's in the documents and and some of

364
00:15:06,769 --> 00:15:04,380
the information in the documents is

365
00:15:07,790 --> 00:15:06,779
anachronistic

366
00:15:10,250 --> 00:15:07,800
um

367
00:15:15,009 --> 00:15:10,260
there was talking about

368
00:15:17,750 --> 00:15:15,019
um the well the the uh El Indio Guerrero

369
00:15:19,730 --> 00:15:17,760
which is really the Del Rio crash which

370
00:15:22,310 --> 00:15:19,740
was originally

371
00:15:23,689 --> 00:15:22,320
talked about I think in 1968 by Robert

372
00:15:25,670 --> 00:15:23,699
Willingham

373
00:15:27,470 --> 00:15:25,680
and he was talking about how it was uh

374
00:15:29,210 --> 00:15:27,480
it happened in 1948 and then he said

375
00:15:30,650 --> 00:15:29,220
well it happened in 1950 and when I

376
00:15:32,990 --> 00:15:30,660
talked to Willingham he said well it was

377
00:15:34,550 --> 00:15:33,000
the mid-1950s well it was the mid-1950s

378
00:15:36,350 --> 00:15:34,560
it couldn't be in the Eisenhower

379
00:15:37,490 --> 00:15:36,360
briefing document because it hadn't

380
00:15:39,050 --> 00:15:37,500
happened yet

381
00:15:40,550 --> 00:15:39,060
but of course the Willingham story

382
00:15:43,310 --> 00:15:40,560
turned out to be a complete and total

383
00:15:45,290 --> 00:15:43,320
hoax in in yet

384
00:15:47,210 --> 00:15:45,300
um there's mention of it in the

385
00:15:49,790 --> 00:15:47,220
Eisenhower briefing document because at

386
00:15:52,970 --> 00:15:49,800
the time the documents were created

387
00:15:56,569 --> 00:15:52,980
there was a belief among the creators

388
00:15:58,730 --> 00:15:56,579
that the Del Rio the El Indio Guerrero

389
00:16:01,129 --> 00:15:58,740
crash was legitimate

390
00:16:03,769 --> 00:16:01,139
they that was what we all believed in

391
00:16:05,150 --> 00:16:03,779
the 19 1985 we had an affidavit from an

392
00:16:06,949 --> 00:16:05,160
Air Force Colonel for crying out loud

393
00:16:08,509 --> 00:16:06,959
turned out the guy was an Air Force

394
00:16:11,810 --> 00:16:08,519
Colonel so the affidavit was virtually

395
00:16:13,790 --> 00:16:11,820
worthless but at the time we all

396
00:16:16,069 --> 00:16:13,800
believed and I did a book in the

397
00:16:18,069 --> 00:16:16,079
mid-1990s called the history of UFO

398
00:16:20,990 --> 00:16:18,079
crash is what I talked about

399
00:16:23,629 --> 00:16:21,000
that craft and Robert willingham's

400
00:16:26,210 --> 00:16:23,639
affidavit and that sort of thing when I

401
00:16:27,530 --> 00:16:26,220
updated that to crash when UFOs fall

402
00:16:29,150 --> 00:16:27,540
from the sky

403
00:16:30,710 --> 00:16:29,160
because now we have access to the

404
00:16:33,350 --> 00:16:30,720
internet you can do all this stuff from

405
00:16:35,269 --> 00:16:33,360
your home I thought I'd see what was new

406
00:16:36,949 --> 00:16:35,279
about it and I learned that Willingham

407
00:16:39,290 --> 00:16:36,959
was out with a new tail

408
00:16:41,810 --> 00:16:39,300
what he said in 1960 I actually found

409
00:16:44,269 --> 00:16:41,820
the 1968 reference to it in skylook

410
00:16:46,249 --> 00:16:44,279
magazine which was the mufon journal

411
00:16:47,749 --> 00:16:46,259
before it was a move on Journal I found

412
00:16:50,749 --> 00:16:47,759
his original story

413
00:16:56,389 --> 00:16:50,759
and it does not match at all what he

414
00:16:58,370 --> 00:16:56,399
said in uh later in 1950 later to Todd

415
00:17:00,650 --> 00:16:58,380
zekela in the 1970s and what he later

416
00:17:02,930 --> 00:17:00,660
said at the center for UFO studies and

417
00:17:05,870 --> 00:17:02,940
signed his affidavit but he was talking

418
00:17:07,510 --> 00:17:05,880
about in 1948 how he was flying in f-94

419
00:17:11,569 --> 00:17:07,520
fighter

420
00:17:14,030 --> 00:17:11,579
but in 1948 the f-94 didn't exist he was

421
00:17:17,449 --> 00:17:14,040
talking how the radar the new line had

422
00:17:19,429 --> 00:17:17,459
keyed them to this Intruder of course

423
00:17:20,870 --> 00:17:19,439
the Dew line didn't exist in 1948 and

424
00:17:22,750 --> 00:17:20,880
once he found all this stuff out then he

425
00:17:26,449 --> 00:17:22,760
shifted the dates

426
00:17:28,669 --> 00:17:26,459
so but but the point simply is in in the

427
00:17:31,310 --> 00:17:28,679
mid 1980s when the Eisenhower briefing

428
00:17:33,830 --> 00:17:31,320
document was created there was a great

429
00:17:36,049 --> 00:17:33,840
deal of belief in the UFO community that

430
00:17:37,490 --> 00:17:36,059
the Dale Real Crash was legitimate

431
00:17:39,710 --> 00:17:37,500
and they just switched the dates they

432
00:17:41,150 --> 00:17:39,720
switched some things around and tried to

433
00:17:42,650 --> 00:17:41,160
make it more consistent with what we

434
00:17:46,130 --> 00:17:42,660
could learn through history

435
00:17:48,890 --> 00:17:46,140
hmm wow interesting all right well let's

436
00:17:51,250 --> 00:17:48,900
go to it what do you think about the

437
00:17:54,169 --> 00:17:51,260
whole David grush

438
00:17:56,570 --> 00:17:54,179
whistleblower situation

439
00:17:57,950 --> 00:17:56,580
I'm I'm very worried about it

440
00:18:00,289 --> 00:17:57,960
um I actually talked to Jerry Clark

441
00:18:02,690 --> 00:18:00,299
about that talked to him I emailed we

442
00:18:04,430 --> 00:18:02,700
emailed back and forth about it he said

443
00:18:05,750 --> 00:18:04,440
we need to be cautious because we don't

444
00:18:07,690 --> 00:18:05,760
have all the information and we

445
00:18:10,310 --> 00:18:07,700
shouldn't be really

446
00:18:12,590 --> 00:18:10,320
drawing solid conclusions prior before

447
00:18:14,150 --> 00:18:12,600
prior to getting all the information but

448
00:18:18,830 --> 00:18:14,160
there are some red flags that we need to

449
00:18:20,210 --> 00:18:18,840
be aware of gresh said that um he won't

450
00:18:22,250 --> 00:18:20,220
reveal his sources

451
00:18:24,470 --> 00:18:22,260
who told him this stuff

452
00:18:26,029 --> 00:18:24,480
he says he has documentation but they're

453
00:18:27,710 --> 00:18:26,039
still classified and he can't let them

454
00:18:29,210 --> 00:18:27,720
out excuse me you've already blown the

455
00:18:30,830 --> 00:18:29,220
whistle on this you know letting out the

456
00:18:32,870 --> 00:18:30,840
documents is not going to harm you any

457
00:18:35,450 --> 00:18:32,880
more than it's you're already harmed no

458
00:18:37,490 --> 00:18:35,460
is that so so he can take classified

459
00:18:39,650 --> 00:18:37,500
documents now and release him and he

460
00:18:41,630 --> 00:18:39,660
can't get he supposedly has classified

461
00:18:44,270 --> 00:18:41,640
documents I don't know why he would have

462
00:18:46,190 --> 00:18:44,280
them if they and if they were once

463
00:18:48,350 --> 00:18:46,200
classified and been Declassified well

464
00:18:50,810 --> 00:18:48,360
then there's really no problem right but

465
00:18:53,570 --> 00:18:50,820
if they're still classified and he has

466
00:18:56,750 --> 00:18:53,580
possession of them then then he's in

467
00:18:58,370 --> 00:18:56,760
violation of any number of regulations

468
00:18:59,750 --> 00:18:58,380
um but that's that's my understanding

469
00:19:01,190 --> 00:18:59,760
and that's what he said well they have

470
00:19:03,169 --> 00:19:01,200
these documents I haven't been given

471
00:19:05,330 --> 00:19:03,179
permission to release them

472
00:19:06,470 --> 00:19:05,340
oh I didn't hear him actually say that

473
00:19:07,970 --> 00:19:06,480
phrase

474
00:19:11,950 --> 00:19:07,980
he said that during the long interview

475
00:19:15,049 --> 00:19:11,960
uh he has made that comment elsewhere

476
00:19:16,549 --> 00:19:15,059
he's talked about how he is trying he

477
00:19:19,850 --> 00:19:16,559
needs the permission to release the

478
00:19:21,710 --> 00:19:19,860
documents but we don't but but the point

479
00:19:24,650 --> 00:19:21,720
simply is he hasn't released them

480
00:19:26,870 --> 00:19:24,660
well here's here's something here a

481
00:19:30,169 --> 00:19:26,880
little by Beau here he testified to

482
00:19:31,070 --> 00:19:30,179
Congress and just to make the point if

483
00:19:37,730 --> 00:19:31,080
he

484
00:19:39,890 --> 00:19:37,740
his butt would be in big trouble

485
00:19:41,210 --> 00:19:39,900
if he truly believed what he said and it

486
00:19:46,789 --> 00:19:41,220
was untrue

487
00:19:49,070 --> 00:19:46,799
that he's not lying he's really

488
00:19:51,650 --> 00:19:49,080
caring misinformation to its source I

489
00:19:53,870 --> 00:19:51,660
mean there's a fine line you walk there

490
00:19:56,289 --> 00:19:53,880
between lying and repeating information

491
00:19:59,210 --> 00:19:56,299
you believe to be the truth

492
00:20:00,650 --> 00:19:59,220
so if he truly believes this stuff and I

493
00:20:02,150 --> 00:20:00,660
get the impression he truly believes

494
00:20:04,130 --> 00:20:02,160
what he's saying there

495
00:20:05,630 --> 00:20:04,140
I'm just worried about the sources of

496
00:20:08,270 --> 00:20:05,640
that information

497
00:20:09,289 --> 00:20:08,280
and and and it would have to be

498
00:20:11,270 --> 00:20:09,299
um

499
00:20:12,529 --> 00:20:11,280
I'm just thinking and and I'm I'm

500
00:20:13,730 --> 00:20:12,539
understanding what you're saying it was

501
00:20:15,830 --> 00:20:13,740
one of the questions I asked Ralph

502
00:20:18,590 --> 00:20:15,840
Blumenthal when I had him on

503
00:20:21,529 --> 00:20:18,600
um and it just seems like it would be

504
00:20:22,730 --> 00:20:21,539
have to be so involved with so many

505
00:20:26,210 --> 00:20:22,740
people

506
00:20:27,650 --> 00:20:26,220
apparently not that I know for sure but

507
00:20:29,810 --> 00:20:27,660
it would just seem like it would be such

508
00:20:31,549 --> 00:20:29,820
an elaborate thing and why would they

509
00:20:35,450 --> 00:20:31,559
why would they do that

510
00:20:38,150 --> 00:20:35,460
in your opinion why would who do what

511
00:20:40,190 --> 00:20:38,160
why would why would they be feeding him

512
00:20:42,049 --> 00:20:40,200
disinformation I don't think no I don't

513
00:20:43,190 --> 00:20:42,059
think it's disinformation what I

514
00:20:46,909 --> 00:20:43,200
understand

515
00:20:48,830 --> 00:20:46,919
I've I I haven't been really called out

516
00:20:51,049 --> 00:20:48,840
on any of this yet

517
00:20:52,669 --> 00:20:51,059
um he would be talking to friends and

518
00:20:54,890 --> 00:20:52,679
they would tell him stuff about these

519
00:20:56,690 --> 00:20:54,900
sorts of things the problem I have with

520
00:20:58,549 --> 00:20:56,700
this if you are involved with classified

521
00:20:59,810 --> 00:20:58,559
materials especially highly classified

522
00:21:03,169 --> 00:20:59,820
top secret

523
00:21:05,450 --> 00:21:03,179
materials you do not discuss it with

524
00:21:07,370 --> 00:21:05,460
those who are not cleared to hear it and

525
00:21:08,990 --> 00:21:07,380
you must assume that everybody around

526
00:21:11,150 --> 00:21:09,000
you

527
00:21:13,490 --> 00:21:11,160
um who's not involved in this particular

528
00:21:14,630 --> 00:21:13,500
project is not clear to hear it so I

529
00:21:17,510 --> 00:21:14,640
don't know why they're bringing him

530
00:21:18,950 --> 00:21:17,520
these Tales unless it's unclassified

531
00:21:20,990 --> 00:21:18,960
material that it was unclassified

532
00:21:22,430 --> 00:21:21,000
material then it's not that important

533
00:21:24,049 --> 00:21:22,440
because we have an awful lot of

534
00:21:26,870 --> 00:21:24,059
unclassified material out there floating

535
00:21:28,789 --> 00:21:26,880
around about UFO crashes and mj-12 and

536
00:21:29,810 --> 00:21:28,799
documentation and all kinds of other

537
00:21:32,149 --> 00:21:29,820
things

538
00:21:35,029 --> 00:21:32,159
so I worry about I worry about that I

539
00:21:37,190 --> 00:21:35,039
worry about the claim that

540
00:21:39,830 --> 00:21:37,200
um they would bring him or he would see

541
00:21:42,289 --> 00:21:39,840
these things that are highly classified

542
00:21:44,510 --> 00:21:42,299
yeah people make mistakes and people

543
00:21:45,950 --> 00:21:44,520
reveal classified material by mistake

544
00:21:49,610 --> 00:21:45,960
all the time

545
00:21:52,789 --> 00:21:49,620
periodically I know was it um

546
00:21:55,190 --> 00:21:52,799
McGeorge Bundy who was a high-ranking

547
00:21:55,990 --> 00:21:55,200
member of the Johnson Administration I

548
00:22:00,169 --> 00:21:56,000
believe

549
00:22:01,909 --> 00:22:00,179
inadvertently revealed a code word to

550
00:22:04,250 --> 00:22:01,919
reporters he had a document in his hand

551
00:22:06,010 --> 00:22:04,260
with the code word on it you know say

552
00:22:08,750 --> 00:22:06,020
top secret they would give the code word

553
00:22:10,010 --> 00:22:08,760
and they got photographs of that so they

554
00:22:12,470 --> 00:22:10,020
realized what the code word was so

555
00:22:14,510 --> 00:22:12,480
inadvertently released the code word

556
00:22:16,370 --> 00:22:14,520
which was classified in in and of itself

557
00:22:20,450 --> 00:22:16,380
so that these sorts of mistakes are made

558
00:22:22,549 --> 00:22:20,460
but you don't generally get into gossip

559
00:22:24,230 --> 00:22:22,559
with people who are not cleared to hear

560
00:22:26,690 --> 00:22:24,240
the information so I don't understand

561
00:22:28,310 --> 00:22:26,700
this at all but he did say a couple of

562
00:22:30,830 --> 00:22:28,320
things in the long-form interview that

563
00:22:33,710 --> 00:22:30,840
was interesting he talked about this 19

564
00:22:35,570 --> 00:22:33,720
33 crash in Italy which I'd never heard

565
00:22:38,450 --> 00:22:35,580
of and I've been researching UFO crashes

566
00:22:40,310 --> 00:22:38,460
yeah literally decades magenta I believe

567
00:22:42,250 --> 00:22:40,320
or something like that

568
00:22:44,870 --> 00:22:42,260
um but but

569
00:22:47,750 --> 00:22:44,880
that case was debunked by Italian

570
00:22:50,029 --> 00:22:47,760
researchers two decades ago

571
00:22:54,230 --> 00:22:50,039
and yet he's talking about this case

572
00:22:57,230 --> 00:22:54,240
from Italy in 1933 where the fascist

573
00:23:00,350 --> 00:22:57,240
Mussolini recovered parts of the Flying

574
00:23:03,289 --> 00:23:00,360
Saucer or mostly intact saucer and he

575
00:23:08,330 --> 00:23:03,299
moved it to an Airfield brought the pope

576
00:23:12,409 --> 00:23:08,340
into it Pope Pius this oh Bush 12th Pope

577
00:23:14,090 --> 00:23:12,419
Pius some number into it and the pope

578
00:23:15,649 --> 00:23:14,100
was worried about the fascists having

579
00:23:17,330 --> 00:23:15,659
this information and leaked it to the

580
00:23:19,730 --> 00:23:17,340
Americans

581
00:23:22,370 --> 00:23:19,740
and once the war was over we recovered

582
00:23:24,710 --> 00:23:22,380
the the debris and there were documents

583
00:23:27,770 --> 00:23:24,720
supposedly released in relation to this

584
00:23:30,950 --> 00:23:29,390
stuff

585
00:23:31,909 --> 00:23:30,960
and and

586
00:23:33,590 --> 00:23:31,919
um

587
00:23:35,870 --> 00:23:33,600
what happened is they did an

588
00:23:36,950 --> 00:23:35,880
investigation into the documentation and

589
00:23:39,230 --> 00:23:36,960
it's the same thing we had with the

590
00:23:41,930 --> 00:23:39,240
mj-12 they cannot vet any of the sources

591
00:23:44,210 --> 00:23:41,940
they don't know what the sources are the

592
00:23:45,289 --> 00:23:44,220
the claim sources an archive that

593
00:23:48,470 --> 00:23:45,299
supposedly released some of the

594
00:23:50,029 --> 00:23:48,480
documents doesn't exist and we just got

595
00:23:53,090 --> 00:23:50,039
all this I just got all this information

596
00:23:54,950 --> 00:23:53,100
in the last week and I'm completing a uh

597
00:23:56,270 --> 00:23:54,960
posting for my blog that outlines this

598
00:23:58,310 --> 00:23:56,280
but when we look at that sort of

599
00:24:01,549 --> 00:23:58,320
information so

600
00:24:03,770 --> 00:24:01,559
I would assume I would believe that the

601
00:24:05,510 --> 00:24:03,780
people who are talking about this 1933

602
00:24:11,930 --> 00:24:05,520
crash

603
00:24:14,810 --> 00:24:11,940
would have known

604
00:24:17,029 --> 00:24:14,820
all aspects of it I think Timothy good

605
00:24:17,810 --> 00:24:17,039
talked about it in one of his books

606
00:24:23,810 --> 00:24:17,820
um

607
00:24:25,190 --> 00:24:23,820
published 20 years ago and I have access

608
00:24:27,110 --> 00:24:25,200
to the Articles they were published in

609
00:24:29,029 --> 00:24:27,120
Italian and just

610
00:24:33,230 --> 00:24:29,039
Friday

611
00:24:35,149 --> 00:24:33,240
no no Sunday just Sunday I got copies of

612
00:24:38,270 --> 00:24:35,159
the Articles translated into into

613
00:24:39,950 --> 00:24:38,280
English from from our uh our colleagues

614
00:24:43,070 --> 00:24:39,960
in Italy

615
00:24:45,470 --> 00:24:43,080
um uh Eduardo Russo I think provided

616
00:24:47,330 --> 00:24:45,480
provided them to us and so I put

617
00:24:48,649 --> 00:24:47,340
together a long form about this crash

618
00:24:50,930 --> 00:24:48,659
but if

619
00:24:52,549 --> 00:24:50,940
Crush believes this crash really took

620
00:24:55,250 --> 00:24:52,559
place and he related this to Congress

621
00:24:57,230 --> 00:24:55,260
well he's not lying he believes it to be

622
00:24:59,169 --> 00:24:57,240
a real thing and he's not fully aware of

623
00:25:02,990 --> 00:24:59,179
all the other things if you look up the

624
00:25:04,669 --> 00:25:03,000
1933 crash Italian crash on the internet

625
00:25:05,930 --> 00:25:04,679
you don't get much in the way of

626
00:25:07,190 --> 00:25:05,940
information there's not a lot of

627
00:25:10,310 --> 00:25:07,200
information out there in the American

628
00:25:12,110 --> 00:25:10,320
environment but

629
00:25:15,409 --> 00:25:12,120
um a number of the

630
00:25:17,930 --> 00:25:15,419
groups I belong to And subscribe to

631
00:25:20,270 --> 00:25:17,940
have access to people all around the

632
00:25:21,590 --> 00:25:20,280
world and they just said this thing was

633
00:25:25,130 --> 00:25:21,600
this thing was

634
00:25:26,750 --> 00:25:25,140
um exposed more than two decades ago so

635
00:25:29,090 --> 00:25:26,760
it makes you wonder about the

636
00:25:32,269 --> 00:25:29,100
credibility of his of his information

637
00:25:34,070 --> 00:25:32,279
and then the other thing I heard and I

638
00:25:35,390 --> 00:25:34,080
have not been able to verify this yet so

639
00:25:36,950 --> 00:25:35,400
I don't know if it's true or not that he

640
00:25:38,450 --> 00:25:36,960
was involved in some fashion at

641
00:25:40,250 --> 00:25:38,460
Skinwalker Ranch

642
00:25:42,169 --> 00:25:40,260
and Jerry cautions well don't don't

643
00:25:43,730 --> 00:25:42,179
smear him with this idea he was involved

644
00:25:45,289 --> 00:25:43,740
in the skin walker Ranch and I'm saying

645
00:25:46,430 --> 00:25:45,299
that the point is not that he was there

646
00:25:48,710 --> 00:25:46,440
and he may have been there for a couple

647
00:25:50,930 --> 00:25:48,720
of days it's the people who were there

648
00:25:53,029 --> 00:25:50,940
that he would have come in contact to

649
00:25:55,669 --> 00:25:53,039
with who may have fed him some of this

650
00:25:59,169 --> 00:25:55,679
other information people who

651
00:26:01,730 --> 00:25:59,179
allegedly have high government positions

652
00:26:03,470 --> 00:26:01,740
talking about things one of them would

653
00:26:06,049 --> 00:26:03,480
have been Eric Davis

654
00:26:07,730 --> 00:26:06,059
who is on the record and I heard him uh

655
00:26:09,890 --> 00:26:07,740
I don't know if it was on Coast to Coast

656
00:26:13,130 --> 00:26:09,900
or one of the other shows talking about

657
00:26:15,470 --> 00:26:13,140
how the Del Rio crash was real

658
00:26:20,750 --> 00:26:15,480
and I'm thinking no it's not and I've

659
00:26:22,450 --> 00:26:20,760
known that for literally 15 years based

660
00:26:24,830 --> 00:26:22,460
on my research and the

661
00:26:27,529 --> 00:26:24,840
disintegration of the um

662
00:26:29,570 --> 00:26:27,539
Tales told by Robert Willingham

663
00:26:32,810 --> 00:26:29,580
who claimed who claimed he was an Air

664
00:26:35,690 --> 00:26:32,820
Force fighter pilot that he had risen to

665
00:26:38,149 --> 00:26:35,700
a colonel in the Air Force I got his

666
00:26:39,470 --> 00:26:38,159
military records he had risen to the

667
00:26:42,110 --> 00:26:39,480
rank of E4

668
00:26:45,110 --> 00:26:42,120
rather low ranking enlisted man he is

669
00:26:46,490 --> 00:26:45,120
technically was a technically a veteran

670
00:26:48,769 --> 00:26:46,500
of World War II we entered the service

671
00:26:50,990 --> 00:26:48,779
in December of 1945.

672
00:26:53,990 --> 00:26:51,000
the war was not declared over officially

673
00:26:56,690 --> 00:26:54,000
until the middle of 1946 the shooting

674
00:27:01,190 --> 00:26:56,700
had ended obviously in September of 45.

675
00:27:04,010 --> 00:27:01,200
so Willingham is was technically a

676
00:27:08,110 --> 00:27:04,020
veteran of World War II he was on duty

677
00:27:13,070 --> 00:27:08,120
from December of 1945 through January of

678
00:27:14,450 --> 00:27:13,080
1947 13 months was an E4 claimed he went

679
00:27:15,950 --> 00:27:14,460
to flight school claimed he was a

680
00:27:19,190 --> 00:27:15,960
fighter pilot claimed he was promoted to

681
00:27:21,289 --> 00:27:19,200
full Colonel by Lyndon Johnson which the

682
00:27:24,230 --> 00:27:21,299
way he tells it was a story right out of

683
00:27:26,149 --> 00:27:24,240
Webb Griffin's um

684
00:27:28,970 --> 00:27:26,159
I don't know I I think it was the

685
00:27:30,890 --> 00:27:28,980
Brotherhood of War Stories books that he

686
00:27:33,409 --> 00:27:30,900
wrote where a guy got promoted by

687
00:27:35,269 --> 00:27:33,419
Presidential Directive and and so he

688
00:27:37,850 --> 00:27:35,279
Willingham was claiming that that Lyndon

689
00:27:39,590 --> 00:27:37,860
Johnson had done that in 1976 of course

690
00:27:41,090 --> 00:27:39,600
Johnson wasn't the president he died in

691
00:27:42,470 --> 00:27:41,100
January so it's very unlikely that

692
00:27:43,490 --> 00:27:42,480
happened

693
00:27:46,370 --> 00:27:43,500
um

694
00:27:48,169 --> 00:27:46,380
claimed he was badly wounded in Korea so

695
00:27:51,110 --> 00:27:48,179
they took him out of Fighters

696
00:27:53,149 --> 00:27:51,120
you couldn't play fighters in the um

697
00:27:54,710 --> 00:27:53,159
the active forces anymore but he went

698
00:27:56,149 --> 00:27:54,720
into the Air Force Reserve and flew

699
00:27:57,769 --> 00:27:56,159
Fighters and I have a lot of friends in

700
00:28:00,950 --> 00:27:57,779
the air guard and I asked him about that

701
00:28:02,510 --> 00:28:00,960
and he said no the problem with

702
00:28:04,789 --> 00:28:02,520
um if you're disqualified from flying

703
00:28:07,570 --> 00:28:04,799
Fighters it's because one of the reasons

704
00:28:10,430 --> 00:28:07,580
might be that you cannot withstand the

705
00:28:12,110 --> 00:28:10,440
forces of the Egyptian if something goes

706
00:28:13,730 --> 00:28:12,120
wrong and you have to reject and from

707
00:28:16,190 --> 00:28:13,740
what Willingham was talking about those

708
00:28:17,870 --> 00:28:16,200
forces would have come into play so he

709
00:28:19,490 --> 00:28:17,880
had he had left the active force and

710
00:28:20,750 --> 00:28:19,500
joined the reserves they can continue to

711
00:28:23,690 --> 00:28:20,760
fly Fighters

712
00:28:27,409 --> 00:28:23,700
untrue the one thing that I point out

713
00:28:29,690 --> 00:28:27,419
which my experience helps with is I know

714
00:28:32,630 --> 00:28:29,700
of no military pilot who's ever gotten

715
00:28:35,149 --> 00:28:32,640
an FAA Pilot's license

716
00:28:37,970 --> 00:28:35,159
who did not get a commercial license

717
00:28:40,010 --> 00:28:37,980
and I say that because according to the

718
00:28:42,529 --> 00:28:40,020
FAA regulations and I I use this

719
00:28:44,570 --> 00:28:42,539
regulation of my my benefit if you went

720
00:28:46,549 --> 00:28:44,580
to a military Flight School

721
00:28:48,649 --> 00:28:46,559
and graduated from that military flight

722
00:28:50,510 --> 00:28:48,659
school and you had more than 200 hours

723
00:28:53,810 --> 00:28:50,520
of flight time and when I graduated from

724
00:28:56,630 --> 00:28:53,820
flight school we had 210 hours

725
00:28:58,250 --> 00:28:56,640
um you could go to the FAA and take a 50

726
00:29:00,350 --> 00:28:58,260
question test and you'd be issued a

727
00:29:03,070 --> 00:29:00,360
commercial pilot's license Willingham

728
00:29:05,630 --> 00:29:03,080
had a private pilot's license not as

729
00:29:07,010 --> 00:29:05,640
important as a commercial license I

730
00:29:09,049 --> 00:29:07,020
didn't get mine until I got back from

731
00:29:12,049 --> 00:29:09,059
Vietnam and I had like 1200 hours of

732
00:29:13,850 --> 00:29:12,059
flight time or more than that uh 1100 in

733
00:29:17,630 --> 00:29:13,860
combat flight time

734
00:29:19,970 --> 00:29:17,640
so wow you know I got back I I took the

735
00:29:22,610 --> 00:29:19,980
test I didn't pass with a really high

736
00:29:24,169 --> 00:29:22,620
grade but who cares because I passed you

737
00:29:25,490 --> 00:29:24,179
know I'm not going to kick it again to

738
00:29:27,830 --> 00:29:25,500
raise the grade I got my commercial

739
00:29:30,470 --> 00:29:27,840
pilot's license but I know of no

740
00:29:32,690 --> 00:29:30,480
military pilot

741
00:29:34,610 --> 00:29:32,700
who didn't who took the test and took

742
00:29:36,169 --> 00:29:34,620
the time to do that got a private

743
00:29:37,850 --> 00:29:36,179
pilot's license but that was all that

744
00:29:39,529 --> 00:29:37,860
Willingham had was a private pilot's

745
00:29:42,769 --> 00:29:39,539
license that argues against what he said

746
00:29:46,010 --> 00:29:42,779
this is a long involved way of looking

747
00:29:47,870 --> 00:29:46,020
at the vetting process and and I guess

748
00:29:49,430 --> 00:29:47,880
we can get back to Eric Davis who may

749
00:29:52,789 --> 00:29:49,440
have been at the skin rocker Ranch and

750
00:29:54,889 --> 00:29:52,799
it may be Davis who who talked to crush

751
00:29:56,990 --> 00:29:54,899
about the Del Rio crash if he in fact

752
00:30:00,169 --> 00:29:57,000
talked about the Del Rio crash he won't

753
00:30:03,529 --> 00:30:00,179
tell us what crashes he knows about

754
00:30:06,470 --> 00:30:03,539
other than Roswell and this 1933 crash

755
00:30:07,750 --> 00:30:06,480
in Italy and I have speculated based on

756
00:30:12,110 --> 00:30:07,760
this

757
00:30:14,510 --> 00:30:12,120
rumor the suggestion that that Crush had

758
00:30:16,310 --> 00:30:14,520
been the Skinwalker Ranch and I know who

759
00:30:17,690 --> 00:30:16,320
was there and it it could put him in

760
00:30:19,549 --> 00:30:17,700
touch with some of the people whose

761
00:30:21,350 --> 00:30:19,559
Stories We have had a chance to vet and

762
00:30:23,269 --> 00:30:21,360
they're not all that great

763
00:30:24,950 --> 00:30:23,279
so I worry about that and that raises

764
00:30:26,630 --> 00:30:24,960
red flags with me does that mean that

765
00:30:28,010 --> 00:30:26,640
Christ is not telling the truth no it

766
00:30:31,850 --> 00:30:28,020
means that there are some problems here

767
00:30:34,490 --> 00:30:31,860
which we could we could remedy easily if

768
00:30:35,810 --> 00:30:34,500
he would provide us with some of the

769
00:30:38,750 --> 00:30:35,820
sources

770
00:30:41,090 --> 00:30:38,760
who told you this stuff do you have any

771
00:30:43,010 --> 00:30:41,100
of the documentation that goes with it

772
00:30:44,810 --> 00:30:43,020
well supposedly

773
00:30:48,769 --> 00:30:44,820
supposedly

774
00:30:51,470 --> 00:30:48,779
there is someone that's going to also

775
00:30:53,870 --> 00:30:51,480
join I don't know as a witness or a

776
00:30:56,389 --> 00:30:53,880
whistleblower that was more involved now

777
00:30:59,029 --> 00:30:56,399
I don't know if that's just a rumor I've

778
00:31:01,730 --> 00:30:59,039
heard I don't know for sure

779
00:31:03,769 --> 00:31:01,740
but that would be key to to cracking

780
00:31:05,450 --> 00:31:03,779
this whole thing open if that would be

781
00:31:07,070 --> 00:31:05,460
very important but at this point that

782
00:31:08,690 --> 00:31:07,080
hasn't happened so we can't say well

783
00:31:10,970 --> 00:31:08,700
there's going to be there's more more

784
00:31:13,970 --> 00:31:10,980
whistleblowers coming but we've been

785
00:31:15,649 --> 00:31:13,980
through this many many times we we went

786
00:31:17,090 --> 00:31:15,659
through this with the MJ 12 documents

787
00:31:19,250 --> 00:31:17,100
for crying out loud

788
00:31:21,590 --> 00:31:19,260
here here's these documents we got them

789
00:31:23,750 --> 00:31:21,600
from the government and and the news

790
00:31:25,610 --> 00:31:23,760
media spent time investigating those and

791
00:31:26,990 --> 00:31:25,620
talking to the people who have them and

792
00:31:31,430 --> 00:31:27,000
all of this sort of thing and it all

793
00:31:35,350 --> 00:31:31,440
blew up the alien autopsy oh yes we had

794
00:31:38,870 --> 00:31:35,360
a big press conference in in London

795
00:31:40,130 --> 00:31:38,880
announcing these films and showing a

796
00:31:41,510 --> 00:31:40,140
little bit of the footage and we were

797
00:31:43,250 --> 00:31:41,520
talking about how there were two and a

798
00:31:46,010 --> 00:31:43,260
half hours of footage and Truman scene

799
00:31:47,510 --> 00:31:46,020
Walk in the crash site with cranes in

800
00:31:49,610 --> 00:31:47,520
the background and all of this stuff and

801
00:31:50,810 --> 00:31:49,620
when we get down to it that's

802
00:31:53,450 --> 00:31:50,820
crap

803
00:31:54,889 --> 00:31:53,460
uh we had the Roswell slides what went

804
00:31:56,870 --> 00:31:54,899
on for months

805
00:31:59,450 --> 00:31:56,880
now here's the picture and we know we

806
00:32:01,370 --> 00:31:59,460
with this blurred picture we we've got

807
00:32:03,049 --> 00:32:01,380
and we finally got a decent copy of the

808
00:32:06,010 --> 00:32:03,059
picture we were able to identify exactly

809
00:32:09,289 --> 00:32:06,020
where it was and what it was in 48 hours

810
00:32:11,450 --> 00:32:09,299
I remember that I was there right at the

811
00:32:12,470 --> 00:32:11,460
the the whole I was involved in that

812
00:32:14,750 --> 00:32:12,480
whole thing

813
00:32:17,210 --> 00:32:14,760
and right while that was happening and I

814
00:32:19,430 --> 00:32:17,220
remember I was so disappointed when I

815
00:32:21,710 --> 00:32:19,440
saw when that image popped up I I just

816
00:32:24,169 --> 00:32:21,720
couldn't believe it not that I knew

817
00:32:26,210 --> 00:32:24,179
exactly that it was for sure anything

818
00:32:27,830 --> 00:32:26,220
but it certainly wasn't

819
00:32:30,649 --> 00:32:27,840
you know it certainly looked like a

820
00:32:33,350 --> 00:32:30,659
mummy to me whatever like I'm a

821
00:32:35,930 --> 00:32:33,360
specialist or anything but you know I

822
00:32:37,370 --> 00:32:35,940
mean after it came out and Tom Kerry was

823
00:32:40,070 --> 00:32:37,380
talking about photographs you know Tom

824
00:32:42,950 --> 00:32:40,080
Kerry kind of released this and so I'm

825
00:32:44,810 --> 00:32:42,960
thinking well if it's not a real alien

826
00:32:46,370 --> 00:32:44,820
where would they get the picture what

827
00:32:48,470 --> 00:32:46,380
would be the picture of the picture was

828
00:32:50,870 --> 00:32:48,480
clearly taken in 1948 the picture was

829
00:32:53,149 --> 00:32:50,880
clearly taken yeah that's that's a

830
00:32:56,389 --> 00:32:53,159
picture it's small but there it is

831
00:32:57,950 --> 00:32:56,399
um picture was the film The Slide film

832
00:32:59,690 --> 00:32:57,960
was clearly from the right time frame

833
00:33:01,370 --> 00:32:59,700
the the mounting was clear the right

834
00:33:03,950 --> 00:33:01,380
time frame

835
00:33:05,810 --> 00:33:03,960
um the the testing suggests it was 1948

836
00:33:07,190 --> 00:33:05,820
so where would somebody in 1948 get

837
00:33:08,990 --> 00:33:07,200
something like this and I thought it was

838
00:33:10,970 --> 00:33:09,000
science fiction movies

839
00:33:13,850 --> 00:33:10,980
but I've got a a couple of nice

840
00:33:16,250 --> 00:33:13,860
resources on science fiction films and

841
00:33:18,230 --> 00:33:16,260
in the 1940s when they had aliens they

842
00:33:19,970 --> 00:33:18,240
were always humans in bizarre costumes I

843
00:33:21,350 --> 00:33:19,980
mean dressed experientially but they

844
00:33:22,430 --> 00:33:21,360
were clearly human there was nothing

845
00:33:25,669 --> 00:33:22,440
like that

846
00:33:28,250 --> 00:33:25,679
and so I said to Tom uh before the big

847
00:33:30,889 --> 00:33:28,260
big reveal I said could it be a mummy

848
00:33:33,350 --> 00:33:30,899
and he said no we've looked for no

849
00:33:34,549 --> 00:33:33,360
mummies and we we couldn't find one that

850
00:33:36,409 --> 00:33:34,559
matches

851
00:33:40,130 --> 00:33:36,419
and um

852
00:33:42,350 --> 00:33:40,140
but but uh within hours of getting a

853
00:33:44,570 --> 00:33:42,360
good quality copy of oh the placard

854
00:33:46,430 --> 00:33:44,580
there was a placard on it in front of

855
00:33:48,169 --> 00:33:46,440
the the case there was a little placard

856
00:33:50,330 --> 00:33:48,179
that couldn't be read because it was

857
00:33:51,649 --> 00:33:50,340
blurred and right I I think what

858
00:33:55,310 --> 00:33:51,659
happened was

859
00:33:58,009 --> 00:33:55,320
um the people who own the um slide when

860
00:34:00,169 --> 00:33:58,019
they when they put out the

861
00:34:01,909 --> 00:34:00,179
original story they kind of blurred that

862
00:34:04,070 --> 00:34:01,919
out so you couldn't read it but the

863
00:34:05,509 --> 00:34:04,080
moment the moment well not the moment

864
00:34:09,230 --> 00:34:05,519
but the minute they got a better better

865
00:34:10,730 --> 00:34:09,240
image of the um placard it became clear

866
00:34:14,690 --> 00:34:10,740
what it was

867
00:34:17,030 --> 00:34:14,700
yeah within a few hours I think 48 hours

868
00:34:18,530 --> 00:34:17,040
I think it took them to get that far 48

869
00:34:19,609 --> 00:34:18,540
hours to get a d blurred to the point

870
00:34:21,050 --> 00:34:19,619
where they could read the whole thing

871
00:34:23,030 --> 00:34:21,060
and realize what was going on and then

872
00:34:26,030 --> 00:34:23,040
they found the archaeological evidence

873
00:34:28,369 --> 00:34:26,040
from the late 19th century where the

874
00:34:30,589 --> 00:34:28,379
where the poor unfortunate child had

875
00:34:31,909 --> 00:34:30,599
been discovered the body of the crowd

876
00:34:32,869 --> 00:34:31,919
had been discovered and that sort of

877
00:34:37,490 --> 00:34:32,879
thing

878
00:34:38,570 --> 00:34:37,500
it's clearly a museum setting it's not

879
00:34:40,190 --> 00:34:38,580
what you would ever there you go

880
00:34:42,530 --> 00:34:40,200
mummified body of a two-year-old boy

881
00:34:44,629 --> 00:34:42,540
there you go right there yeah and that

882
00:34:48,050 --> 00:34:44,639
gave the whole thing away

883
00:34:49,790 --> 00:34:48,060
um yeah but but at that point we had we

884
00:34:51,290 --> 00:34:49,800
had the experts coming out saying well

885
00:34:54,349 --> 00:34:51,300
this that and the other thing of

886
00:34:56,089 --> 00:34:54,359
anthropologists uh saying yeah it says

887
00:34:59,270 --> 00:34:56,099
what they had was it doesn't look like

888
00:35:01,010 --> 00:34:59,280
it's human and if the arms are not quite

889
00:35:04,670 --> 00:35:01,020
right or the hands are wrong or there's

890
00:35:07,190 --> 00:35:04,680
something wrong with that uh the whole

891
00:35:08,570 --> 00:35:07,200
thing but the point is we have that kind

892
00:35:11,690 --> 00:35:08,580
of information and that kind of

893
00:35:13,430 --> 00:35:11,700
speculation going on prior to the

894
00:35:16,370 --> 00:35:13,440
discovery of the placard or the reading

895
00:35:18,349 --> 00:35:16,380
of the placard and once that was out it

896
00:35:20,450 --> 00:35:18,359
collapsed I mean

897
00:35:23,390 --> 00:35:20,460
I think Tom

898
00:35:26,390 --> 00:35:23,400
held on to the idea it might not be a

899
00:35:29,690 --> 00:35:26,400
mummy for quite a while uh after yes he

900
00:35:32,390 --> 00:35:29,700
did yes because I I tried to talk to him

901
00:35:35,030 --> 00:35:32,400
oh I don't know several months maybe

902
00:35:37,130 --> 00:35:35,040
even six months afterwards and it said

903
00:35:39,890 --> 00:35:37,140
something about have you changed your

904
00:35:42,710 --> 00:35:39,900
thoughts and he was standing standing

905
00:35:46,130 --> 00:35:42,720
with it still but but Don Don pretty

906
00:35:47,990 --> 00:35:46,140
much well Don called and apologized Don

907
00:35:48,890 --> 00:35:48,000
called me right away and said what do I

908
00:35:51,589 --> 00:35:48,900
do

909
00:35:54,530 --> 00:35:51,599
hmm and I said it met the truth you're

910
00:35:59,030 --> 00:35:54,540
duped apologize for your role in this

911
00:36:01,790 --> 00:35:59,040
thing but Tom Tom wanted to

912
00:36:03,890 --> 00:36:01,800
Tom just really believed in it I I had

913
00:36:06,050 --> 00:36:03,900
time on on my uh

914
00:36:07,910 --> 00:36:06,060
my radio show

915
00:36:10,430 --> 00:36:07,920
a year or two later

916
00:36:11,930 --> 00:36:10,440
yeah and and I I told him you know we'll

917
00:36:12,710 --> 00:36:11,940
just we'll talk about UFOs and what

918
00:36:14,450 --> 00:36:12,720
you're doing and he said well

919
00:36:16,849 --> 00:36:14,460
everything's up to up for grabs and so

920
00:36:20,510 --> 00:36:16,859
we talked a little bit about the um

921
00:36:22,250 --> 00:36:20,520
about the Roswell slides and uh he'd

922
00:36:24,530 --> 00:36:22,260
pretty much come around to the idea that

923
00:36:26,030 --> 00:36:24,540
well you know it's really not an alien

924
00:36:28,370 --> 00:36:26,040
creature

925
00:36:30,349 --> 00:36:28,380
so but but the point simply is we've

926
00:36:33,290 --> 00:36:30,359
gone through this before so now we're at

927
00:36:35,270 --> 00:36:33,300
the beginning of of this process and we

928
00:36:37,550 --> 00:36:35,280
have a guy telling stories but he's not

929
00:36:40,790 --> 00:36:37,560
provided us with much of anything

930
00:36:43,310 --> 00:36:40,800
other than a reference to a crash in

931
00:36:44,930 --> 00:36:43,320
Italy that apparently is a hoax

932
00:36:46,069 --> 00:36:44,940
and and

933
00:36:49,130 --> 00:36:46,079
um

934
00:36:51,890 --> 00:36:49,140
you know my speculations on if he was a

935
00:36:53,450 --> 00:36:51,900
Skinwalker Ranch he would have come into

936
00:36:54,530 --> 00:36:53,460
contact with these people this is some

937
00:36:56,510 --> 00:36:54,540
of the names that have been associated

938
00:36:59,270 --> 00:36:56,520
with this or Christopher melon I think

939
00:37:02,870 --> 00:36:59,280
has been involved in some fashion in

940
00:37:04,490 --> 00:37:02,880
this and things like that but these

941
00:37:07,069 --> 00:37:04,500
would be the people he's talking talking

942
00:37:09,290 --> 00:37:07,079
to and unless we get somebody

943
00:37:11,990 --> 00:37:09,300
who can

944
00:37:14,810 --> 00:37:12,000
who's disassociated with some of the

945
00:37:16,430 --> 00:37:14,820
other aspects of this and talk about it

946
00:37:19,550 --> 00:37:16,440
in the um

947
00:37:21,470 --> 00:37:19,560
sort of in a pristine way I I just feel

948
00:37:23,990 --> 00:37:21,480
it's not going to go very well you know

949
00:37:27,890 --> 00:37:24,000
and I I'm with Jerry Clark on this we

950
00:37:31,970 --> 00:37:29,810
but it's being

951
00:37:33,650 --> 00:37:31,980
kind of dribbled out the way it was with

952
00:37:35,870 --> 00:37:33,660
the Roswell slides the way it was with

953
00:37:38,390 --> 00:37:35,880
the alien autopsy the way it was with

954
00:37:41,210 --> 00:37:38,400
the mj-12 documents I mean as just three

955
00:37:42,589 --> 00:37:41,220
examples of of this or we or we could go

956
00:37:44,030 --> 00:37:42,599
the other way and say oh the way it was

957
00:37:45,589 --> 00:37:44,040
dribbled out with the project mobile

958
00:37:48,770 --> 00:37:45,599
nonsense you know if you want another

959
00:37:51,290 --> 00:37:48,780
right logical hoax from the other side

960
00:37:54,490 --> 00:37:51,300
of the side of the spectrum and we had

961
00:37:58,310 --> 00:37:54,500
we had Charles Moore from Project Mobile

962
00:37:59,690 --> 00:37:58,320
basically lying and we can document that

963
00:38:02,569 --> 00:37:59,700
now

964
00:38:04,190 --> 00:38:02,579
um when the mobile answer

965
00:38:04,910 --> 00:38:04,200
came about

966
00:38:08,050 --> 00:38:04,920
um

967
00:38:13,210 --> 00:38:08,060
I had gotten hold of the

968
00:38:17,690 --> 00:38:17,089
1947. and I supplied charts to

969
00:38:19,250 --> 00:38:17,700
um

970
00:38:21,650 --> 00:38:19,260
Charles Moore

971
00:38:23,089 --> 00:38:21,660
and in the original document he did he

972
00:38:25,190 --> 00:38:23,099
thanked me for giving him the charts and

973
00:38:27,290 --> 00:38:25,200
I got a letter from him asking me for

974
00:38:30,589 --> 00:38:27,300
additional charts to create the wins

975
00:38:32,630 --> 00:38:30,599
Aloft data and at which he he I figured

976
00:38:34,730 --> 00:38:32,640
he was better at it than I would be but

977
00:38:37,550 --> 00:38:34,740
the problem that it turned out to be was

978
00:38:39,410 --> 00:38:37,560
he modified the data we've got a

979
00:38:40,730 --> 00:38:39,420
document

980
00:38:42,349 --> 00:38:40,740
you know when we got a hold of the

981
00:38:44,450 --> 00:38:42,359
document we thank the Air Force for this

982
00:38:46,910 --> 00:38:44,460
they got a hold of Dr Albert crary's

983
00:38:48,950 --> 00:38:46,920
Diaries and he filth notes and he was

984
00:38:50,569 --> 00:38:48,960
the leader of the project in New Mexico

985
00:38:51,589 --> 00:38:50,579
where they were launching these balloon

986
00:38:53,569 --> 00:38:51,599
arrays

987
00:38:56,270 --> 00:38:53,579
and he says the flight that they

988
00:38:58,670 --> 00:38:56,280
settlement for for proving it was a

989
00:39:00,530 --> 00:38:58,680
mogul blue a slight number four but the

990
00:39:02,870 --> 00:39:00,540
documentation says the flight never flew

991
00:39:05,990 --> 00:39:02,880
it was canceled

992
00:39:08,089 --> 00:39:06,000
and yet we that kind of information was

993
00:39:10,250 --> 00:39:08,099
dribbling out and and Charles Moore

994
00:39:12,530 --> 00:39:10,260
insisted well no we didn't really cancel

995
00:39:14,870 --> 00:39:12,540
the flight it was launched earlier than

996
00:39:16,970 --> 00:39:14,880
the time we canceled it there was all

997
00:39:19,069 --> 00:39:16,980
this nonsense going on and so you know

998
00:39:20,569 --> 00:39:19,079
we can look at it from both sides of the

999
00:39:23,089 --> 00:39:20,579
fence you know with the

1000
00:39:25,490 --> 00:39:23,099
the information dribbling out so when

1001
00:39:28,190 --> 00:39:25,500
Jerry says to me or writes to me

1002
00:39:31,849 --> 00:39:28,200
communicates to me that we need to kind

1003
00:39:33,890 --> 00:39:31,859
of wait to get all the information well

1004
00:39:35,390 --> 00:39:33,900
he's absolutely correct on that but we

1005
00:39:39,710 --> 00:39:35,400
can take a look at some of the stuff we

1006
00:39:41,870 --> 00:39:39,720
do have and say does this hold up to

1007
00:39:44,589 --> 00:39:41,880
um I I was going to say disinterested

1008
00:39:49,849 --> 00:39:44,599
scrutiny but I I think it's really

1009
00:39:52,550 --> 00:39:49,859
not just it's not really disinformation

1010
00:39:54,170 --> 00:39:52,560
it's not really disinterested scrutiny

1011
00:39:55,550 --> 00:39:54,180
because I have a rooting interest in

1012
00:39:58,970 --> 00:39:55,560
this sort of thing so I'm a little bit

1013
00:40:02,089 --> 00:39:58,980
biased on that but look at the um

1014
00:40:04,790 --> 00:40:02,099
look at the case uh in a dispassionate

1015
00:40:06,349 --> 00:40:04,800
way I'll drop another name here uh when

1016
00:40:08,930 --> 00:40:06,359
I was talking to James Van Allen yeah

1017
00:40:09,890 --> 00:40:08,940
the radiation belt guy yeah

1018
00:40:12,770 --> 00:40:09,900
um

1019
00:40:14,870 --> 00:40:12,780
we were talking about UFOs and he said

1020
00:40:16,370 --> 00:40:14,880
you have to make your investigation

1021
00:40:18,170 --> 00:40:16,380
dispassionate

1022
00:40:20,089 --> 00:40:18,180
you have to look at the evidence you

1023
00:40:21,890 --> 00:40:20,099
don't want you know we all have our

1024
00:40:23,450 --> 00:40:21,900
biases when we come to an investigation

1025
00:40:25,790 --> 00:40:23,460
but you have to look at it in a

1026
00:40:27,349 --> 00:40:25,800
dispassionate way and I'll go on an

1027
00:40:30,230 --> 00:40:27,359
anecdote here which is kind of funny

1028
00:40:32,270 --> 00:40:30,240
because I asked him about UFO you know

1029
00:40:33,650 --> 00:40:32,280
believing in UFOs and he says well when

1030
00:40:35,210 --> 00:40:33,660
you're in the middle of Wyoming and you

1031
00:40:38,150 --> 00:40:35,220
hear the thunder of who's

1032
00:40:40,130 --> 00:40:38,160
you don't expect zebra which means you

1033
00:40:41,810 --> 00:40:40,140
have to eliminate the mundane before you

1034
00:40:43,310 --> 00:40:41,820
move to the Exotic

1035
00:40:44,990 --> 00:40:43,320
twenty years later

1036
00:40:48,710 --> 00:40:45,000
I saw a story

1037
00:40:51,710 --> 00:40:48,720
on the news about some zebra who'd

1038
00:40:54,050 --> 00:40:51,720
escaped from a zoo in Wyoming

1039
00:40:55,609 --> 00:40:54,060
so you could be in Wyoming and hear the

1040
00:40:57,650 --> 00:40:55,619
thunder of hoof bees and it could in

1041
00:41:00,770 --> 00:40:57,660
fact be zebra I thought it was just kind

1042
00:41:05,329 --> 00:41:00,780
of coincidental but the analogy he had

1043
00:41:08,329 --> 00:41:05,339
provided me to came to truth in in in

1044
00:41:12,230 --> 00:41:08,339
Wyoming sometime later well uh thanks

1045
00:41:15,650 --> 00:41:12,240
for the uh for the uh donation boat uh

1046
00:41:19,030 --> 00:41:15,660
he said Rush testified for 11 hours

1047
00:41:22,130 --> 00:41:19,040
to Congress what do you think about that

1048
00:41:24,589 --> 00:41:22,140
they've had a lot of people testifying

1049
00:41:26,630 --> 00:41:24,599
too yes and while while that is being

1050
00:41:28,670 --> 00:41:26,640
said just to let you know I have a let

1051
00:41:31,490 --> 00:41:28,680
the audience know I have Mario Woods on

1052
00:41:34,190 --> 00:41:31,500
who testified for four hours and 19

1053
00:41:37,010 --> 00:41:34,200
minutes he's going to be on next week as

1054
00:41:38,569 --> 00:41:37,020
a special guest coming back on but we

1055
00:41:40,069 --> 00:41:38,579
don't know what he testified to we don't

1056
00:41:41,569 --> 00:41:40,079
know what he said to Congress we don't

1057
00:41:43,069 --> 00:41:41,579
know any of that sort of thing we don't

1058
00:41:45,650 --> 00:41:43,079
know what information he provided to

1059
00:41:47,690 --> 00:41:45,660
them if he testified to Congress and he

1060
00:41:51,589 --> 00:41:47,700
was talking about the Italian UFO crash

1061
00:41:52,970 --> 00:41:51,599
well then his testimony uh becomes less

1062
00:41:54,890 --> 00:41:52,980
critical

1063
00:41:56,990 --> 00:41:54,900
you know if he's talking about stuff

1064
00:41:59,990 --> 00:41:57,000
there's documents about this this

1065
00:42:01,730 --> 00:42:00,000
Italian UFO crash out there but they

1066
00:42:04,849 --> 00:42:01,740
have been they haven't been properly

1067
00:42:07,250 --> 00:42:04,859
vetted it's mj-12 all over again

1068
00:42:09,170 --> 00:42:07,260
the mj-12 kind of thing all over again

1069
00:42:10,790 --> 00:42:09,180
so we don't know what he said we don't

1070
00:42:15,069 --> 00:42:10,800
we've we've seen

1071
00:42:18,410 --> 00:42:15,079
I I sat through the last um

1072
00:42:21,530 --> 00:42:18,420
meeting with uh Kirkpatrick

1073
00:42:25,609 --> 00:42:21,540
to the Senate on this I watched this

1074
00:42:27,589 --> 00:42:25,619
entire presentation and I of course

1075
00:42:29,089 --> 00:42:27,599
analyzed it on the blog but nobody was

1076
00:42:31,670 --> 00:42:29,099
really talking about

1077
00:42:34,550 --> 00:42:31,680
UFOs they were talking about the

1078
00:42:37,130 --> 00:42:34,560
logistics of studying UFOs they were

1079
00:42:38,810 --> 00:42:37,140
talking about a lot of stuff but we

1080
00:42:41,270 --> 00:42:38,820
didn't get any meat and then I watched

1081
00:42:44,030 --> 00:42:41,280
the stupid NASA briefing that went on

1082
00:42:47,450 --> 00:42:44,040
forever in a week yeah I just went on

1083
00:42:49,550 --> 00:42:47,460
endlessly and we got nothing there so

1084
00:42:51,290 --> 00:42:49,560
you're looking at that so he's testified

1085
00:42:53,030 --> 00:42:51,300
to Congress for 11 hours but we don't

1086
00:42:54,410 --> 00:42:53,040
know what he said we need the

1087
00:42:55,690 --> 00:42:54,420
transcripts we need to know what he said

1088
00:42:58,370 --> 00:42:55,700
so we can take a look at the information

1089
00:43:00,589 --> 00:42:58,380
when they had the first briefing the the

1090
00:43:02,510 --> 00:43:00,599
two guys from the Department of Navy

1091
00:43:04,609 --> 00:43:02,520
whose names escaped me because they were

1092
00:43:06,829 --> 00:43:04,619
so inconsequential I just refuse to

1093
00:43:08,870 --> 00:43:06,839
remember them but they were talking

1094
00:43:10,849 --> 00:43:08,880
about how they had they'd seen nothing

1095
00:43:13,490 --> 00:43:10,859
it was the first first briefing that

1096
00:43:16,490 --> 00:43:13,500
they were given they'd seen nothing they

1097
00:43:18,109 --> 00:43:16,500
presented a couple of useless videos and

1098
00:43:20,150 --> 00:43:18,119
uh talked around this whole thing one of

1099
00:43:22,069 --> 00:43:20,160
the senators or one of the congressmen

1100
00:43:23,690 --> 00:43:22,079
asked him about Mouse from Air Force

1101
00:43:27,170 --> 00:43:23,700
Base where the missiles were shut down

1102
00:43:28,550 --> 00:43:27,180
in 1960. and the guy actually said well

1103
00:43:31,010 --> 00:43:28,560
we don't know anything about that and

1104
00:43:32,750 --> 00:43:31,020
later on he admitted that he did know

1105
00:43:34,970 --> 00:43:32,760
something about that so

1106
00:43:36,650 --> 00:43:34,980
you know was was there a lie being told

1107
00:43:39,770 --> 00:43:36,660
there was there some misrepresentation

1108
00:43:42,589 --> 00:43:39,780
going there but what struck me was at

1109
00:43:44,210 --> 00:43:42,599
least one of the people questioning the

1110
00:43:47,870 --> 00:43:44,220
witnesses knew a little bit about the

1111
00:43:49,670 --> 00:43:47,880
topic and they kind of mealy Mount their

1112
00:43:52,250 --> 00:43:49,680
way around that but I think the

1113
00:43:56,510 --> 00:43:52,260
Maelstrom thing is important

1114
00:43:58,190 --> 00:43:56,520
because of um the connection to UFOs

1115
00:44:00,109 --> 00:43:58,200
because when the missiles were shut down

1116
00:44:01,790 --> 00:44:00,119
at malstrom Air Force Base it was also

1117
00:44:04,250 --> 00:44:01,800
UFO sightings going on in the Belt

1118
00:44:06,650 --> 00:44:04,260
Montana area in maelstrom's in in that

1119
00:44:09,410 --> 00:44:06,660
area their their missile fields are what

1120
00:44:12,770 --> 00:44:09,420
over 100 square miles I mean scattered

1121
00:44:16,730 --> 00:44:12,780
all over the Montana Countryside

1122
00:44:18,530 --> 00:44:16,740
and and when the Condon committee

1123
00:44:20,510 --> 00:44:18,540
um investigator went to Maelstrom to

1124
00:44:23,270 --> 00:44:20,520
talk about this and asked about the

1125
00:44:24,410 --> 00:44:23,280
missile shutdown the um UFO officers I

1126
00:44:26,870 --> 00:44:24,420
can't tell you about that it's National

1127
00:44:28,490 --> 00:44:26,880
Security which if you've got an outside

1128
00:44:30,349 --> 00:44:28,500
force capable of shutting down the

1129
00:44:32,349 --> 00:44:30,359
missiles yeah that's National Security

1130
00:44:34,790 --> 00:44:32,359
I'll agree with that point yeah I guess

1131
00:44:37,550 --> 00:44:34,800
but we don't know what he said during

1132
00:44:39,770 --> 00:44:37,560
those 11 hours and we we saw the

1133
00:44:42,770 --> 00:44:39,780
interview on

1134
00:44:44,450 --> 00:44:42,780
is it news Nation yes news Nation

1135
00:44:46,569 --> 00:44:44,460
because there's another new one called

1136
00:44:53,690 --> 00:44:46,579
Newsmax

1137
00:44:56,750 --> 00:44:53,700
um but but the point is we got no real

1138
00:44:59,210 --> 00:44:56,760
details there other than him talking

1139
00:45:02,690 --> 00:44:59,220
about this 19

1140
00:45:04,490 --> 00:45:02,700
of 33 UFO crash but we got no real

1141
00:45:05,990 --> 00:45:04,500
details we got nothing there we don't

1142
00:45:08,510 --> 00:45:06,000
know who he's talking to we don't know

1143
00:45:10,130 --> 00:45:08,520
what crashes he's talking about you know

1144
00:45:12,589 --> 00:45:10,140
I speculated you may have been talking

1145
00:45:14,450 --> 00:45:12,599
about Aztec there's documentation FBI

1146
00:45:17,450 --> 00:45:14,460
documents

1147
00:45:19,550 --> 00:45:17,460
talking about the the Aztec UFO crash

1148
00:45:22,010 --> 00:45:19,560
for crying out loud

1149
00:45:24,950 --> 00:45:22,020
there's that FBI memo that Hoover wrote

1150
00:45:28,130 --> 00:45:24,960
in his handwriting um talking about the

1151
00:45:30,589 --> 00:45:28,140
it's probably the Shreveport Louisiana

1152
00:45:33,170 --> 00:45:30,599
crash of

1153
00:45:37,010 --> 00:45:33,180
late or June of night June or July of

1154
00:45:40,010 --> 00:45:37,020
1947 and and Hoover writes uh by which

1155
00:45:41,870 --> 00:45:40,020
the the military is asking the FBI for

1156
00:45:45,530 --> 00:45:41,880
help in vetting the witnesses

1157
00:45:47,329 --> 00:45:45,540
and Clyde Tolson put on the memo yeah we

1158
00:45:49,130 --> 00:45:47,339
should do this we should do that and

1159
00:45:51,890 --> 00:45:49,140
Hoover was agreeing with this job but

1160
00:45:54,530 --> 00:45:51,900
the Army has to um agree to let us act

1161
00:45:58,190 --> 00:45:54,540
give us access to disrecovered in the in

1162
00:46:00,290 --> 00:45:58,200
its SW I think SW case I think it's the

1163
00:46:02,870 --> 00:46:00,300
LA case his writing is so bad you could

1164
00:46:04,970 --> 00:46:02,880
interpret it like 14 different ways but

1165
00:46:06,770 --> 00:46:04,980
he was referring to Shreveport so we've

1166
00:46:08,809 --> 00:46:06,780
got a document talking about a crash

1167
00:46:11,630 --> 00:46:08,819
that you could interpret that says SW

1168
00:46:13,130 --> 00:46:11,640
for Southwest meaning the Roswell case

1169
00:46:14,690 --> 00:46:13,140
but it really doesn't mean that but

1170
00:46:16,670 --> 00:46:14,700
we've got all those kinds of problems

1171
00:46:18,890 --> 00:46:16,680
and we have to see the documents we have

1172
00:46:20,990 --> 00:46:18,900
to see the evidence we have to know who

1173
00:46:22,609 --> 00:46:21,000
he was talking until we have to know we

1174
00:46:24,890 --> 00:46:22,619
have to cite the sources and if you

1175
00:46:27,109 --> 00:46:24,900
can't do that then you're doing us no

1176
00:46:30,069 --> 00:46:27,119
good

1177
00:46:32,690 --> 00:46:30,079
right right let me uh let's move on to

1178
00:46:35,990 --> 00:46:32,700
this right here I would like to talk

1179
00:46:37,430 --> 00:46:36,000
about because this is uh interesting and

1180
00:46:40,490 --> 00:46:37,440
I wanted to know what you thought about

1181
00:46:41,809 --> 00:46:40,500
it it's the uh let me let me get over to

1182
00:46:43,069 --> 00:46:41,819
the right page

1183
00:46:46,670 --> 00:46:43,079
here

1184
00:46:47,750 --> 00:46:46,680
go

1185
00:46:50,690 --> 00:46:47,760
um nope

1186
00:46:53,210 --> 00:46:50,700
I'm trying to scroll up on this thing

1187
00:46:55,069 --> 00:46:53,220
here we go all right this was released

1188
00:46:57,349 --> 00:46:55,079
by George Knapp

1189
00:47:00,290 --> 00:46:57,359
and uh this

1190
00:47:02,089 --> 00:47:00,300
George Knapp and Jeremy Corbell this is

1191
00:47:03,410 --> 00:47:02,099
a Canadian document

1192
00:47:06,170 --> 00:47:03,420
and

1193
00:47:07,010 --> 00:47:06,180
have you have read this over what do you

1194
00:47:10,930 --> 00:47:07,020
think

1195
00:47:15,589 --> 00:47:13,069
it's the same kind of thing we've seen

1196
00:47:18,950 --> 00:47:15,599
time and time again he refers to this

1197
00:47:21,589 --> 00:47:18,960
evidence from 1950. is this the Wilbur

1198
00:47:23,510 --> 00:47:21,599
Smith stuff that uh Robert sawbacher was

1199
00:47:25,370 --> 00:47:23,520
talking about two decades ago a quarter

1200
00:47:27,950 --> 00:47:25,380
of a century ago is that what he's

1201
00:47:30,530 --> 00:47:27,960
referring to there's nothing in there

1202
00:47:33,109 --> 00:47:30,540
that really gets gives us any meat is

1203
00:47:35,630 --> 00:47:33,119
some guy worried about the

1204
00:47:38,530 --> 00:47:35,640
um ramifications if the Canadian

1205
00:47:42,349 --> 00:47:38,540
government is involved in the reverse

1206
00:47:44,930 --> 00:47:42,359
engineering of these craft uh with with

1207
00:47:48,650 --> 00:47:44,940
the Australians the new zealands the

1208
00:47:50,690 --> 00:47:48,660
Canadians the British and the Americans

1209
00:47:52,370 --> 00:47:50,700
and so we've got this sort of thing you

1210
00:47:54,950 --> 00:47:52,380
read the document but there's really no

1211
00:47:57,170 --> 00:47:54,960
me to it it talks about this 1950 stuff

1212
00:47:59,030 --> 00:47:57,180
and I'm wondering and if we have to

1213
00:48:02,569 --> 00:47:59,040
remember Wilbur Smith was a Canadian

1214
00:48:04,849 --> 00:48:02,579
scientist yes supposedly was involved it

1215
00:48:07,550 --> 00:48:04,859
said something to Robert sawbacher and

1216
00:48:09,950 --> 00:48:07,560
sawbucker talked about that but Smith

1217
00:48:11,750 --> 00:48:09,960
was long gone before we got that

1218
00:48:13,190 --> 00:48:11,760
information for sawbucker and it turns

1219
00:48:14,690 --> 00:48:13,200
out sawbucker didn't see or hear

1220
00:48:17,930 --> 00:48:14,700
anything himself

1221
00:48:20,089 --> 00:48:17,940
and so it's secondhand information it

1222
00:48:22,069 --> 00:48:20,099
doesn't do us any good in reading that

1223
00:48:23,690 --> 00:48:22,079
letter he really doesn't give us any

1224
00:48:26,030 --> 00:48:23,700
specifics and it's not a classified

1225
00:48:27,349 --> 00:48:26,040
letter anyway right if there were

1226
00:48:28,670 --> 00:48:27,359
specifics in it that may have been

1227
00:48:31,069 --> 00:48:28,680
classified at that

1228
00:48:34,250 --> 00:48:31,079
you're saying well we need the he's

1229
00:48:37,670 --> 00:48:34,260
urging the um with the defense minister

1230
00:48:38,630 --> 00:48:37,680
to um take a look at this stuff just in

1231
00:48:40,790 --> 00:48:38,640
case

1232
00:48:43,390 --> 00:48:40,800
because he doesn't want the Canadian

1233
00:48:46,550 --> 00:48:43,400
government to offend

1234
00:48:49,250 --> 00:48:46,560
their their Partners in the um in the

1235
00:48:50,450 --> 00:48:49,260
world we of course being Americans one

1236
00:48:53,089 --> 00:48:50,460
of those partners

1237
00:48:54,230 --> 00:48:53,099
I would mod I would want to offend the

1238
00:48:56,329 --> 00:48:54,240
Australians because they have all those

1239
00:48:58,150 --> 00:48:56,339
nasty creatures that just can kill you

1240
00:49:01,609 --> 00:48:58,160
in an instant but

1241
00:49:04,309 --> 00:49:01,619
but now here's the question I have

1242
00:49:06,170 --> 00:49:04,319
though is why would this person what

1243
00:49:06,890 --> 00:49:06,180
would be the purpose to write this if it

1244
00:49:11,150 --> 00:49:06,900
wasn't

1245
00:49:12,710 --> 00:49:11,160
something of a concern yes obviously

1246
00:49:15,109 --> 00:49:12,720
it's something of concern but we don't

1247
00:49:17,510 --> 00:49:15,119
know what information he has to cause

1248
00:49:19,190 --> 00:49:17,520
that concern other than what we all have

1249
00:49:21,410 --> 00:49:19,200
at the moment and that part of it was

1250
00:49:24,410 --> 00:49:21,420
The Whistleblower coming forward and

1251
00:49:26,690 --> 00:49:24,420
getting this this uh having multiple

1252
00:49:28,609 --> 00:49:26,700
platforms to talk about this without

1253
00:49:30,109 --> 00:49:28,619
information that we can get to and he

1254
00:49:31,790 --> 00:49:30,119
talks about this night that was caught

1255
00:49:33,349 --> 00:49:31,800
my attention with his reference to the

1256
00:49:35,450 --> 00:49:33,359
1950s stuff

1257
00:49:38,329 --> 00:49:35,460
and I began to think you know what was

1258
00:49:39,829 --> 00:49:38,339
going on in 1950 and that was the Wilbur

1259
00:49:51,790 --> 00:49:39,839
Smith

1260
00:49:55,609 --> 00:49:51,800
yeah I mean well who cares yeah

1261
00:49:58,250 --> 00:49:55,619
the guy's dead and we don't know yeah

1262
00:50:00,290 --> 00:49:58,260
um no it's it

1263
00:50:02,030 --> 00:50:00,300
my God I haven't written down on my Note

1264
00:50:04,190 --> 00:50:02,040
Wilbur Smith

1265
00:50:07,370 --> 00:50:04,200
hahaha because I didn't want to forget

1266
00:50:10,130 --> 00:50:07,380
his name and I've got it written down

1267
00:50:12,109 --> 00:50:10,140
but but we got the information from

1268
00:50:13,490 --> 00:50:12,119
sabacher sawbacher didn't know anything

1269
00:50:14,930 --> 00:50:13,500
himself so how about she's talking about

1270
00:50:16,250 --> 00:50:14,940
how the government was involved in this

1271
00:50:17,630 --> 00:50:16,260
investigation and doing reverse

1272
00:50:19,130 --> 00:50:17,640
engineering and all this stuff and when

1273
00:50:21,410 --> 00:50:19,140
you pin cellbacher down I think Jerry

1274
00:50:24,290 --> 00:50:21,420
Clark pinned him down I think uh Stan

1275
00:50:26,089 --> 00:50:24,300
Friedman tried to pin him down I think

1276
00:50:28,849 --> 00:50:26,099
um what William Steinman got the

1277
00:50:31,550 --> 00:50:28,859
original uh information from him tried

1278
00:50:32,870 --> 00:50:31,560
to pin him down and and and so he was

1279
00:50:35,210 --> 00:50:32,880
telling well he'd heard this stuff he'd

1280
00:50:36,829 --> 00:50:35,220
heard this stuff but it turns out that's

1281
00:50:39,349 --> 00:50:36,839
all he didn't attend the meetings where

1282
00:50:41,329 --> 00:50:39,359
the stuff was discussed he wasn't in the

1283
00:50:44,450 --> 00:50:41,339
meetings he heard it from other people

1284
00:50:47,870 --> 00:50:44,460
so so in essence you know it's

1285
00:50:50,630 --> 00:50:47,880
second-handed best maybe third hand

1286
00:50:52,490 --> 00:50:50,640
um and and a number of us investigators

1287
00:50:54,829 --> 00:50:52,500
are in the same boat I mean we've talked

1288
00:50:56,750 --> 00:50:54,839
to people who were there in the Roswell

1289
00:50:58,609 --> 00:50:56,760
case I any number of people who were

1290
00:51:00,170 --> 00:50:58,619
involved in the Roswell recovery we've

1291
00:51:01,910 --> 00:51:00,180
talked to so we're now secondhand

1292
00:51:03,710 --> 00:51:01,920
witnesses to that stuff

1293
00:51:05,690 --> 00:51:03,720
which is not a way to add to my

1294
00:51:09,230 --> 00:51:05,700
credibility but the merely merely point

1295
00:51:12,770 --> 00:51:09,240
out that that we have been able to

1296
00:51:15,829 --> 00:51:12,780
talk to people who were involved on a

1297
00:51:18,349 --> 00:51:15,839
you know one-to-one basis uh as an

1298
00:51:20,390 --> 00:51:18,359
example we've we've got the sheriff

1299
00:51:22,549 --> 00:51:20,400
Wilcox in Roswell well we never talked

1300
00:51:25,250 --> 00:51:22,559
to him we talked to his daughter so when

1301
00:51:27,049 --> 00:51:25,260
we talked to the daughter that becomes

1302
00:51:29,990 --> 00:51:27,059
um she was secondhand we're third hand

1303
00:51:31,849 --> 00:51:30,000
but the daughter

1304
00:51:33,950 --> 00:51:31,859
um

1305
00:51:35,390 --> 00:51:33,960
Oh I wanna it's not Elizabeth talk it's

1306
00:51:37,190 --> 00:51:35,400
the other one

1307
00:51:38,930 --> 00:51:37,200
whose name I cannot remember at the

1308
00:51:41,569 --> 00:51:38,940
moment geez it's what happens when you

1309
00:51:44,630 --> 00:51:41,579
get old your brain melts yeah

1310
00:51:46,490 --> 00:51:44,640
um McGuire McGuire

1311
00:51:47,930 --> 00:51:46,500
um she was in the office when Brazil

1312
00:51:49,849 --> 00:51:47,940
showed up

1313
00:51:51,890 --> 00:51:49,859
so she could talk about what she had

1314
00:51:53,809 --> 00:51:51,900
seen in the office yeah and then other

1315
00:51:55,430 --> 00:51:53,819
stuff she heard later but she would then

1316
00:51:57,049 --> 00:51:55,440
she became second hand and she became

1317
00:51:59,930 --> 00:51:57,059
firsthand and we talking to her that we

1318
00:52:03,829 --> 00:51:59,940
became secondhand Witnesses right

1319
00:52:05,450 --> 00:52:03,839
um but but with sabacher he's at best a

1320
00:52:08,809 --> 00:52:05,460
second-hand Witnesses maybe a third-hand

1321
00:52:12,890 --> 00:52:08,819
witness and it's and it's Wilbur Smith I

1322
00:52:15,109 --> 00:52:13,549
um

1323
00:52:17,329 --> 00:52:15,119
so

1324
00:52:19,010 --> 00:52:17,339
I I worry that that's the reference and

1325
00:52:21,589 --> 00:52:19,020
he's gotten hold of some of that old

1326
00:52:22,609 --> 00:52:21,599
information that's come up and we have

1327
00:52:24,170 --> 00:52:22,619
to

1328
00:52:26,089 --> 00:52:24,180
um

1329
00:52:27,290 --> 00:52:26,099
we have to we have to remember that sort

1330
00:52:29,750 --> 00:52:27,300
of thing but there's nothing in the

1331
00:52:31,730 --> 00:52:29,760
letter that is a classified and really

1332
00:52:34,430 --> 00:52:31,740
corroborates anything other than he's

1333
00:52:36,410 --> 00:52:34,440
concerned that there might be reverse

1334
00:52:38,630 --> 00:52:36,420
engineering going on nothing about

1335
00:52:41,150 --> 00:52:38,640
really weaponization but reverse

1336
00:52:42,490 --> 00:52:41,160
engineering going on and he's concerned

1337
00:52:46,250 --> 00:52:42,500
that

1338
00:52:48,530 --> 00:52:46,260
it will affect their relations with the

1339
00:52:50,150 --> 00:52:48,540
other partners in this want to say

1340
00:52:51,589 --> 00:52:50,160
triumvert but it's really more than that

1341
00:52:53,450 --> 00:52:51,599
but it's the Australians the new

1342
00:52:56,870 --> 00:52:53,460
zealands the Canadians the British and

1343
00:52:59,990 --> 00:52:56,880
the United States all involved in this

1344
00:53:02,569 --> 00:53:00,000
um this ongoing Research into other

1345
00:53:05,390 --> 00:53:02,579
other things not just UFOs so I think

1346
00:53:10,849 --> 00:53:08,510
purpose for the letter was to warn to

1347
00:53:12,890 --> 00:53:10,859
make sure that the

1348
00:53:15,710 --> 00:53:12,900
proper government officials in Canada

1349
00:53:19,069 --> 00:53:15,720
are aware of this possibility

1350
00:53:23,089 --> 00:53:19,079
yeah well um I just want to say uh

1351
00:53:24,589 --> 00:53:23,099
chulaloo to everyone over at kgra Radio

1352
00:53:26,089 --> 00:53:24,599
um we're going to continue on a little

1353
00:53:29,030 --> 00:53:26,099
bit because we have not talked about

1354
00:53:31,730 --> 00:53:29,040
your book and that's the main reason you

1355
00:53:34,130 --> 00:53:31,740
actually were here so thank you over at

1356
00:53:37,130 --> 00:53:34,140
kgra radio and we'll see you next week

1357
00:53:41,390 --> 00:53:37,140
uh with Mario woods so

1358
00:53:45,650 --> 00:53:41,400
um this situation here in your opinion

1359
00:53:46,250 --> 00:53:45,660
this is your opinion do you think that

1360
00:53:49,010 --> 00:53:46,260
um

1361
00:53:50,990 --> 00:53:49,020
yeah I personally think that some people

1362
00:53:52,430 --> 00:53:51,000
are going to start more people are going

1363
00:53:55,370 --> 00:53:52,440
to come forward

1364
00:53:57,710 --> 00:53:55,380
I know they have to have integrity I've

1365
00:53:59,750 --> 00:53:57,720
actually spoken to someone

1366
00:54:02,390 --> 00:53:59,760
hopefully is going to be on my show that

1367
00:54:04,670 --> 00:54:02,400
has uh was in the military and had a

1368
00:54:07,069 --> 00:54:04,680
situation happen that's related to this

1369
00:54:10,069 --> 00:54:07,079
and I'm really excited I'm going to meet

1370
00:54:11,450 --> 00:54:10,079
him face to face next week and

1371
00:54:14,390 --> 00:54:11,460
um but

1372
00:54:16,250 --> 00:54:14,400
I am hopeful that well first of all I

1373
00:54:18,950 --> 00:54:16,260
always I always had personally I always

1374
00:54:20,630 --> 00:54:18,960
thought it was very uh when I first

1375
00:54:23,150 --> 00:54:20,640
started hearing about Crash vehicles I

1376
00:54:25,549 --> 00:54:23,160
thought wow that's you know bizarre and

1377
00:54:27,890 --> 00:54:25,559
I I was saying kind of things that I

1378
00:54:30,170 --> 00:54:27,900
heard other people say

1379
00:54:34,309 --> 00:54:30,180
um like they how did they get here and

1380
00:54:37,370 --> 00:54:34,319
then how could they crash but if you had

1381
00:54:39,770 --> 00:54:37,380
I'm asking you to speculate here do you

1382
00:54:41,450 --> 00:54:39,780
believe that it's possible that there

1383
00:54:44,569 --> 00:54:41,460
are crashed vehicles and that we

1384
00:54:46,790 --> 00:54:44,579
actually do like Russia's story could be

1385
00:54:49,069 --> 00:54:46,800
an actual truth

1386
00:54:51,230 --> 00:54:49,079
there are elements that that I believe

1387
00:54:54,890 --> 00:54:51,240
are true and it was talking about the

1388
00:54:56,270 --> 00:54:54,900
Roswell case well yeah as I said earlier

1389
00:54:58,069 --> 00:54:56,280
you know I leaned toward the

1390
00:55:00,170 --> 00:54:58,079
Extraterrestrial in the Roswell kick

1391
00:55:02,089 --> 00:55:00,180
case you know people say to me well why

1392
00:55:03,770 --> 00:55:02,099
would it crash and I'm thinking well you

1393
00:55:06,049 --> 00:55:03,780
know maybe somebody pushed the wrong

1394
00:55:08,329 --> 00:55:06,059
button

1395
00:55:09,650 --> 00:55:08,339
um you know maybe something failed

1396
00:55:13,130 --> 00:55:09,660
you know

1397
00:55:14,410 --> 00:55:13,140
um I mean we have moved to a point in

1398
00:55:18,650 --> 00:55:14,420
our technology

1399
00:55:21,710 --> 00:55:18,660
where things things can be built that

1400
00:55:24,890 --> 00:55:21,720
are almost all right

1401
00:55:27,349 --> 00:55:24,900
uh indestructible and yet

1402
00:55:29,990 --> 00:55:27,359
things still go wrong

1403
00:55:32,030 --> 00:55:30,000
so they could crashed I had I'd said at

1404
00:55:34,309 --> 00:55:32,040
one point my favorite theory was that

1405
00:55:36,589 --> 00:55:34,319
they did it on purpose because it's a

1406
00:55:39,170 --> 00:55:36,599
very non-threatening way to introduce

1407
00:55:40,670 --> 00:55:39,180
themselves to the people of Earth it's

1408
00:55:42,650 --> 00:55:40,680
you know it's Crash craft in the dead

1409
00:55:45,829 --> 00:55:42,660
bodies well there's speculation of

1410
00:55:49,670 --> 00:55:45,839
Roswell being a lightning strike

1411
00:55:51,470 --> 00:55:49,680
now you you can get through Interstellar

1412
00:55:54,290 --> 00:55:51,480
space in a lightning bolt is going to

1413
00:55:55,430 --> 00:55:54,300
bring you down I mean there's a lot of

1414
00:55:57,470 --> 00:55:55,440
stuff you got to get through an

1415
00:55:59,690 --> 00:55:57,480
Interstellar space to get here and

1416
00:56:02,690 --> 00:55:59,700
lightning isn't going to be a problem

1417
00:56:04,970 --> 00:56:02,700
but as I said they did it on purpose and

1418
00:56:07,549 --> 00:56:04,980
somebody thought I was serious

1419
00:56:08,750 --> 00:56:07,559
I know I just like it as a team Theory

1420
00:56:12,349 --> 00:56:08,760
it's

1421
00:56:14,990 --> 00:56:12,359
liked

1422
00:56:18,230 --> 00:56:15,000
um but but

1423
00:56:19,670 --> 00:56:18,240
I can't see them raining out of the sky

1424
00:56:22,190 --> 00:56:19,680
they're talking about the United States

1425
00:56:24,470 --> 00:56:22,200
being in possession of 12.

1426
00:56:27,170 --> 00:56:24,480
or more yeah something like that yeah

1427
00:56:29,450 --> 00:56:27,180
and and if we've got 12

1428
00:56:31,549 --> 00:56:29,460
do the Canadians have 12

1429
00:56:33,650 --> 00:56:31,559
how about the Russians in the China as

1430
00:56:35,990 --> 00:56:33,660
far as land mass goes we're small land

1431
00:56:37,730 --> 00:56:36,000
mass compared to Russia and China and

1432
00:56:39,530 --> 00:56:37,740
that you know and there's interesting

1433
00:56:41,390 --> 00:56:39,540
stuff going on in the United States with

1434
00:56:42,950 --> 00:56:41,400
our with our rocketry and our Atomic

1435
00:56:44,630 --> 00:56:42,960
Testing and all of that that would kind

1436
00:56:46,549 --> 00:56:44,640
of draw their attention but then again

1437
00:56:47,569 --> 00:56:46,559
you can say if the same things about the

1438
00:56:50,210 --> 00:56:47,579
Russians

1439
00:56:51,829 --> 00:56:50,220
and the Chinese and other places on

1440
00:56:53,630 --> 00:56:51,839
Earth

1441
00:56:54,770 --> 00:56:53,640
you know so you've got to take a look at

1442
00:56:56,270 --> 00:56:54,780
all of that but

1443
00:56:59,329 --> 00:56:56,280
I just can't believe they're raining out

1444
00:57:02,390 --> 00:56:59,339
of the sky in in that fashion

1445
00:57:04,849 --> 00:57:02,400
um I know that a lot of the cases

1446
00:57:05,870 --> 00:57:04,859
um that I've looked at and I was at one

1447
00:57:08,089 --> 00:57:05,880
point

1448
00:57:09,530 --> 00:57:08,099
I I was thinking there was like 12 not

1449
00:57:11,270 --> 00:57:09,540
12. I was thinking there's a handful of

1450
00:57:13,730 --> 00:57:11,280
cases just and I mean like five or six

1451
00:57:16,549 --> 00:57:13,740
cases that were good evidence of some

1452
00:57:18,470 --> 00:57:16,559
kind of Crash Roswell being one of them

1453
00:57:19,910 --> 00:57:18,480
Las Vegas being one of them Kecksburg

1454
00:57:21,710 --> 00:57:19,920
being one of them there was shag Harbor

1455
00:57:23,930 --> 00:57:21,720
which I think more of is an emergency

1456
00:57:25,670 --> 00:57:23,940
landing than a than a crash and we never

1457
00:57:29,089 --> 00:57:25,680
really recovered anything better

1458
00:57:31,849 --> 00:57:29,099
but you look at some of these cases and

1459
00:57:33,829 --> 00:57:31,859
and you think okay these make sense but

1460
00:57:35,710 --> 00:57:33,839
then we begin to get into it and some of

1461
00:57:37,750 --> 00:57:35,720
them just don't hold up under under

1462
00:57:40,490 --> 00:57:37,760
proper scientific

1463
00:57:42,890 --> 00:57:40,500
investigation I think I think the Las

1464
00:57:44,990 --> 00:57:42,900
Vegas crash is probably not a crash but

1465
00:57:46,370 --> 00:57:45,000
it was a meteor that exploded in the sky

1466
00:57:48,710 --> 00:57:46,380
over Las Vegas

1467
00:57:50,510 --> 00:57:48,720
talking to the people in Las Vegas and

1468
00:57:52,069 --> 00:57:50,520
talking to that and they said well they

1469
00:57:53,930 --> 00:57:52,079
tracked it on radar well they really

1470
00:57:56,230 --> 00:57:53,940
didn't they tracked the ion Trail which

1471
00:58:00,049 --> 00:57:56,240
is a different different kind of fish

1472
00:58:01,549 --> 00:58:00,059
that sort of thing but oh you have to

1473
00:58:04,069 --> 00:58:01,559
take a look at all of that sort of thing

1474
00:58:06,170 --> 00:58:04,079
so I just look at the

1475
00:58:08,870 --> 00:58:06,180
of that sort of thing so I don't know

1476
00:58:10,490 --> 00:58:08,880
why they would crash uh if something

1477
00:58:13,430 --> 00:58:10,500
broke somebody pushed the wrong button

1478
00:58:14,870 --> 00:58:13,440
somebody miscalculated somebody made a

1479
00:58:16,970 --> 00:58:14,880
mistake and

1480
00:58:19,309 --> 00:58:16,980
brought the thing down

1481
00:58:22,130 --> 00:58:19,319
um yeah I know Stan was a was a fan of

1482
00:58:24,530 --> 00:58:22,140
the two collided and one well San

1483
00:58:26,150 --> 00:58:24,540
Agustin one fell in the Roswell area and

1484
00:58:27,650 --> 00:58:26,160
I'm thinking yeah I've crossed

1485
00:58:29,510 --> 00:58:27,660
Interstellar space and I fly into

1486
00:58:32,030 --> 00:58:29,520
another Flying Saucer yeah that's that

1487
00:58:37,010 --> 00:58:32,040
that makes sense

1488
00:58:41,750 --> 00:58:38,870
but this is Barney Barnett

1489
00:58:44,329 --> 00:58:41,760
that's it and you say well with the uh

1490
00:58:47,150 --> 00:58:44,339
the rumors about that geological team

1491
00:58:49,789 --> 00:58:47,160
from college stumbling across it was

1492
00:58:52,490 --> 00:58:49,799
that was that proven a hoax we never

1493
00:58:55,490 --> 00:58:52,500
found them hmm we never found them

1494
00:58:56,329 --> 00:58:55,500
Gerald Anderson said well they were from

1495
00:58:58,549 --> 00:58:56,339
um

1496
00:59:00,410 --> 00:58:58,559
he identified the leader of the team as

1497
00:59:03,069 --> 00:59:00,420
Adrian Busker turned out it was high

1498
00:59:05,990 --> 00:59:03,079
school anthropology teacher

1499
00:59:07,549 --> 00:59:06,000
which he thought was dead but we managed

1500
00:59:09,130 --> 00:59:07,559
to find him alive and chatted with you I

1501
00:59:11,569 --> 00:59:09,140
chatted with him a number of times

1502
00:59:13,670 --> 00:59:11,579
and proved that Anderson was in his

1503
00:59:15,530 --> 00:59:13,680
class and Stan denied it until the very

1504
00:59:17,210 --> 00:59:15,540
end that Anderson wasn't in the

1505
00:59:19,069 --> 00:59:17,220
anthropology class but Stan knew the

1506
00:59:19,789 --> 00:59:19,079
truth because I got the letter showing

1507
00:59:22,430 --> 00:59:19,799
this

1508
00:59:24,170 --> 00:59:22,440
hmm But but

1509
00:59:26,450 --> 00:59:24,180
um it really boiled down to Barney

1510
00:59:27,650 --> 00:59:26,460
Barnett and it was people he told this

1511
00:59:30,890 --> 00:59:27,660
story to

1512
00:59:32,510 --> 00:59:30,900
and when Moore was doing his Biltmore

1513
00:59:33,770 --> 00:59:32,520
was doing his original investigation in

1514
00:59:36,289 --> 00:59:33,780
the Roswell case he talked to a guy

1515
00:59:40,490 --> 00:59:36,299
named Fleck Danley who was

1516
00:59:42,049 --> 00:59:40,500
um Barnett's boss in 1947 and got him to

1517
00:59:44,089 --> 00:59:42,059
say that it well I think it was the

1518
00:59:46,430 --> 00:59:44,099
summer of 1947 when I talked to Fleck

1519
00:59:48,770 --> 00:59:46,440
family he really didn't have any idea

1520
00:59:50,809 --> 00:59:48,780
what it was you know he he said to me it

1521
00:59:52,190 --> 00:59:50,819
was the summer of 1947 and talking to

1522
00:59:54,710 --> 00:59:52,200
him I figured I could have convinced him

1523
00:59:55,490 --> 00:59:54,720
it was just last week

1524
00:59:57,710 --> 00:59:55,500
um

1525
01:00:00,049 --> 00:59:57,720
so we have to take a look at all of that

1526
01:00:02,390 --> 01:00:00,059
sort of stuff but Roswell Roswell I

1527
01:00:05,390 --> 01:00:02,400
think is the best example we have

1528
01:00:08,630 --> 01:00:05,400
of a UFO crash and it explains an awful

1529
01:00:11,470 --> 01:00:08,640
lot of the way the government reacted in

1530
01:00:12,890 --> 01:00:11,480
later years and the reason they were

1531
01:00:16,250 --> 01:00:12,900
[Music]

1532
01:00:19,309 --> 01:00:16,260
so Panic was just the idea

1533
01:00:20,930 --> 01:00:19,319
that the um

1534
01:00:22,789 --> 01:00:20,940
uh

1535
01:00:24,170 --> 01:00:22,799
they didn't know what the UFOs were they

1536
01:00:26,390 --> 01:00:24,180
know what the flying sauces were and

1537
01:00:29,510 --> 01:00:26,400
where they Soviet were they somebody

1538
01:00:31,190 --> 01:00:29,520
else's what exactly were they and if

1539
01:00:32,270 --> 01:00:31,200
they did and if they found the remnants

1540
01:00:34,250 --> 01:00:32,280
of one

1541
01:00:37,190 --> 01:00:34,260
they would have reacted with the the

1542
01:00:39,230 --> 01:00:37,200
secrecy they did simply because we are

1543
01:00:41,150 --> 01:00:39,240
now have in our possession of technology

1544
01:00:42,530 --> 01:00:41,160
to far superior to anything we have and

1545
01:00:44,690 --> 01:00:42,540
if we can figure it out we're going to

1546
01:00:45,470 --> 01:00:44,700
move way ahead of our competitors in the

1547
01:00:48,230 --> 01:00:45,480
world

1548
01:00:50,990 --> 01:00:48,240
and you know as I said um I I saw the

1549
01:00:53,089 --> 01:00:51,000
question flash up there yeah and that

1550
01:00:54,710 --> 01:00:53,099
was that was the idea with I said

1551
01:00:58,309 --> 01:00:54,720
earlier that they had done it on purpose

1552
01:00:59,870 --> 01:00:58,319
you sort of did yes this question here I

1553
01:01:01,370 --> 01:00:59,880
don't I don't think I don't think that I

1554
01:01:03,230 --> 01:01:01,380
think it was a Mist I think it was a

1555
01:01:04,490 --> 01:01:03,240
legitimate accident as opposed to

1556
01:01:05,690 --> 01:01:04,500
something they had done on purpose

1557
01:01:07,670 --> 01:01:05,700
because if they had done it on purpose

1558
01:01:08,870 --> 01:01:07,680
they wouldn't have picked Roswell they

1559
01:01:12,530 --> 01:01:08,880
wouldn't they wouldn't have picked a

1560
01:01:14,270 --> 01:01:12,540
ranch 75 miles or 65 miles Northwest of

1561
01:01:16,250 --> 01:01:14,280
Roswell in the barren desert where

1562
01:01:18,910 --> 01:01:16,260
somebody may not find it for literally

1563
01:01:21,109 --> 01:01:18,920
years they would have picked some place

1564
01:01:22,910 --> 01:01:21,119
where it could have gotten the public

1565
01:01:25,010 --> 01:01:22,920
play that they wanted

1566
01:01:27,230 --> 01:01:25,020
if that was the purpose behind it you

1567
01:01:29,630 --> 01:01:27,240
know why are we gonna why wouldn't

1568
01:01:31,549 --> 01:01:29,640
crash this thing to announce our

1569
01:01:33,650 --> 01:01:31,559
presence here in a non-threatening

1570
01:01:34,569 --> 01:01:33,660
benevolent way

1571
01:01:38,510 --> 01:01:34,579
um

1572
01:01:39,710 --> 01:01:38,520
they picked a place Why Not Crash I was

1573
01:01:40,609 --> 01:01:39,720
going to say crash at White Sands but

1574
01:01:41,870 --> 01:01:40,619
that wouldn't have done him any good

1575
01:01:43,789 --> 01:01:41,880
because the military would have had it

1576
01:01:46,670 --> 01:01:43,799
and pushed the whole thing up but some

1577
01:01:48,230 --> 01:01:46,680
place where uh the media could have

1578
01:01:50,210 --> 01:01:48,240
gotten to it the scientists could have

1579
01:01:51,530 --> 01:01:50,220
gotten to it that they wouldn't have

1580
01:01:53,270 --> 01:01:51,540
been able to contain it as well as they

1581
01:01:55,490 --> 01:01:53,280
didn't yeah but you're thinking of

1582
01:01:57,589 --> 01:01:55,500
you're thinking in human intelligence

1583
01:02:01,069 --> 01:01:57,599
that's something we always

1584
01:02:04,250 --> 01:02:01,079
tend to do and we don't know the way

1585
01:02:06,470 --> 01:02:04,260
whatever it is thinks

1586
01:02:09,049 --> 01:02:06,480
and we can speculate to a point by

1587
01:02:11,630 --> 01:02:09,059
saying well they're all sent the

1588
01:02:13,670 --> 01:02:11,640
SE are certain logical things that would

1589
01:02:16,069 --> 01:02:13,680
come about you know we can say well they

1590
01:02:18,970 --> 01:02:16,079
wouldn't be using base 10. for the

1591
01:02:23,450 --> 01:02:22,010
if we go by if we go by the alien

1592
01:02:25,490 --> 01:02:23,460
autopsy film they would have done what

1593
01:02:28,010 --> 01:02:25,500
base eight

1594
01:02:29,089 --> 01:02:28,020
yeah so do you know about Gerald

1595
01:02:32,690 --> 01:02:29,099
Anderson

1596
01:02:34,309 --> 01:02:32,700
right

1597
01:02:36,530 --> 01:02:34,319
what do you want to know about Gerald

1598
01:02:39,890 --> 01:02:36,540
Anderson uh yeah what about Gerald

1599
01:02:43,130 --> 01:02:39,900
Anderson Gordon Shumway my butt

1600
01:02:43,140 --> 01:02:46,849
Gordon Shumway was Al

1601
01:02:50,870 --> 01:02:49,789
TV oh Al's name real name was Gordon

1602
01:02:52,670 --> 01:02:50,880
Shumway

1603
01:02:54,170 --> 01:02:52,680
proving I pay attention to the science

1604
01:02:56,750 --> 01:02:54,180
fiction too

1605
01:02:58,430 --> 01:02:56,760
Gerald Anderson interjected himself into

1606
01:03:03,710 --> 01:02:58,440
the Roswell crash

1607
01:03:06,109 --> 01:03:03,720
and talked about how he had he and his

1608
01:03:08,390 --> 01:03:06,119
father and his uncle and brother or

1609
01:03:10,609 --> 01:03:08,400
something we're out looking for

1610
01:03:12,589 --> 01:03:10,619
originally out from Moss Agate on the

1611
01:03:13,910 --> 01:03:12,599
plains of San Agustin when they found

1612
01:03:16,430 --> 01:03:13,920
the crash

1613
01:03:17,750 --> 01:03:16,440
uh we actually talked I actually talked

1614
01:03:20,569 --> 01:03:17,760
to a geologist and learn more about

1615
01:03:23,930 --> 01:03:20,579
where you could find various agates

1616
01:03:25,670 --> 01:03:23,940
uh in New Mexico and Moss Agate wasn't

1617
01:03:27,230 --> 01:03:25,680
found on the plains of San Agustin but

1618
01:03:28,549 --> 01:03:27,240
you could find banded agates so his

1619
01:03:30,410 --> 01:03:28,559
story then became while they work in

1620
01:03:32,930 --> 01:03:30,420
Vermont getting banned today again

1621
01:03:35,030 --> 01:03:32,940
which is a real red flag meaning you're

1622
01:03:36,230 --> 01:03:35,040
changing your story to incorporate the

1623
01:03:38,510 --> 01:03:36,240
new information

1624
01:03:40,370 --> 01:03:38,520
Anderson talked about how it was a guy

1625
01:03:42,589 --> 01:03:40,380
named Adrian Buskirk

1626
01:03:45,650 --> 01:03:42,599
Tom Kerry did some research and found a

1627
01:03:47,809 --> 01:03:45,660
Buskirk who's an anthropologist

1628
01:03:48,890 --> 01:03:47,819
and discovered that it was Winfred bus

1629
01:03:51,710 --> 01:03:48,900
Kirk

1630
01:03:54,109 --> 01:03:51,720
and he was we learned that he was he had

1631
01:03:55,430 --> 01:03:54,119
taught at the Albuquerque High School

1632
01:03:57,410 --> 01:03:55,440
and I was trying to figure out a

1633
01:03:59,150 --> 01:03:57,420
connection between

1634
01:04:02,390 --> 01:03:59,160
[Music]

1635
01:04:02,990 --> 01:04:02,400
Winford Buskirk and Anderson

1636
01:04:05,569 --> 01:04:03,000
um

1637
01:04:07,670 --> 01:04:05,579
then they were both in New Mexico and

1638
01:04:10,130 --> 01:04:07,680
then realized that Anderson had been at

1639
01:04:13,130 --> 01:04:10,140
the Albuquerque

1640
01:04:15,170 --> 01:04:13,140
um High School Buskirk had friends there

1641
01:04:18,230 --> 01:04:15,180
look up his records

1642
01:04:20,990 --> 01:04:18,240
and told us

1643
01:04:23,390 --> 01:04:21,000
and they told me I talked to him as well

1644
01:04:25,130 --> 01:04:23,400
that Anderson had taken the anthropology

1645
01:04:26,750 --> 01:04:25,140
course from Buskirk

1646
01:04:28,069 --> 01:04:26,760
and they knew it was buskirk's

1647
01:04:29,530 --> 01:04:28,079
anthropology course because he was the

1648
01:04:31,549 --> 01:04:29,540
only one that taught anthropology

1649
01:04:32,809 --> 01:04:31,559
courses at the Albuquerque High School

1650
01:04:34,789 --> 01:04:32,819
the time frame and if you took

1651
01:04:37,609 --> 01:04:34,799
anthropology he didn't uh he had to

1652
01:04:40,010 --> 01:04:37,619
think of a busker so he knew Buskirk

1653
01:04:41,329 --> 01:04:40,020
from that time so he just he just put

1654
01:04:43,370 --> 01:04:41,339
his anthropology High School

1655
01:04:46,250 --> 01:04:43,380
anthropology teacher into this crash

1656
01:04:48,890 --> 01:04:46,260
retrieval well Buskirk told me that in

1657
01:04:52,190 --> 01:04:48,900
July of 1947

1658
01:04:54,589 --> 01:04:52,200
he was in Arizona doing his PhD working

1659
01:04:56,030 --> 01:04:54,599
on his PhD dissertation with the Western

1660
01:05:00,650 --> 01:04:56,040
Apache

1661
01:05:02,089 --> 01:05:00,660
Anderson produced A identicate Sketch

1662
01:05:04,370 --> 01:05:02,099
of

1663
01:05:06,530 --> 01:05:04,380
this guy remember Anderson's five years

1664
01:05:08,030 --> 01:05:06,540
old at the time and now he's giving us

1665
01:05:11,089 --> 01:05:08,040
you know

1666
01:05:13,430 --> 01:05:11,099
30 40 50 years later he's giving us

1667
01:05:15,770 --> 01:05:13,440
an identical sketch of what this guy

1668
01:05:17,510 --> 01:05:15,780
looked like and these were circulated in

1669
01:05:18,950 --> 01:05:17,520
New Mexico one of the people found them

1670
01:05:20,690 --> 01:05:18,960
found one and said oh look it's wind

1671
01:05:23,470 --> 01:05:20,700
Buskirk I mean recognized it from The

1672
01:05:27,589 --> 01:05:23,480
Identical sketch we um

1673
01:05:29,569 --> 01:05:27,599
learned that in 1947 Buskirk didn't look

1674
01:05:32,870 --> 01:05:29,579
like that he was much thinner

1675
01:05:36,650 --> 01:05:32,880
and so what uh the the the

1676
01:05:38,990 --> 01:05:36,660
um identical sketch was Buskirk in 1957.

1677
01:05:42,109 --> 01:05:39,000
and you can match the pictures from the

1678
01:05:44,630 --> 01:05:42,119
yearbooks we got the uh I should say Don

1679
01:05:46,250 --> 01:05:44,640
Kerry got pictures of bus Kirk and we

1680
01:05:48,650 --> 01:05:46,260
put all of that together so we knew

1681
01:05:50,809 --> 01:05:48,660
Buskirk couldn't be the guy Anderson

1682
01:05:53,150 --> 01:05:50,819
said that um there was this big

1683
01:05:56,390 --> 01:05:53,160
battalion-sized operation going on over

1684
01:05:59,150 --> 01:05:56,400
at horse Springs The Landing aircraft on

1685
01:06:00,829 --> 01:05:59,160
the on the roads and all of this stuff

1686
01:06:03,230 --> 01:06:00,839
but a guy named

1687
01:06:05,450 --> 01:06:03,240
um Wesley hurt Dr Wesley hurt from

1688
01:06:08,150 --> 01:06:05,460
Harvard or Harvard

1689
01:06:09,829 --> 01:06:08,160
uh yeah on the plains of San Agustin in

1690
01:06:11,870 --> 01:06:09,839
July we didn't know exactly when I think

1691
01:06:14,630 --> 01:06:11,880
it was Art Campbell found a letter

1692
01:06:18,170 --> 01:06:14,640
in the Harford archives

1693
01:06:20,870 --> 01:06:18,180
dated July for uh uh dated in July says

1694
01:06:24,349 --> 01:06:20,880
and and Hertz says we arrived on July

1695
01:06:25,670 --> 01:06:24,359
1st so we knew when he got there so he

1696
01:06:28,549 --> 01:06:25,680
would have been there at the time of the

1697
01:06:30,049 --> 01:06:28,559
crash I told us that Stan Friedman's Dan

1698
01:06:31,789 --> 01:06:30,059
says they were working in a place called

1699
01:06:34,309 --> 01:06:31,799
Bat Cave which I'm always hesitant to

1700
01:06:37,130 --> 01:06:34,319
say because bat cave was a cave full of

1701
01:06:39,770 --> 01:06:37,140
bats obviously yeah in the in the

1702
01:06:41,510 --> 01:06:39,780
mountains on the Eastern Bank of what

1703
01:06:43,910 --> 01:06:41,520
was the plains of San Agustin Plains of

1704
01:06:46,069 --> 01:06:43,920
Santa Augustine is dried up Lake Bend

1705
01:06:48,049 --> 01:06:46,079
and I mentioned that the stances well we

1706
01:06:49,370 --> 01:06:48,059
don't know uh how far they were in the

1707
01:06:51,109 --> 01:06:49,380
cave we don't know which way the cave

1708
01:06:52,730 --> 01:06:51,119
faced anything like that and I said I do

1709
01:06:53,990 --> 01:06:52,740
stand they were looking for human

1710
01:06:55,970 --> 01:06:54,000
habitation so they wouldn't have been

1711
01:06:57,950 --> 01:06:55,980
very deep in the cave because without

1712
01:07:00,109 --> 01:06:57,960
flashlights or torches you couldn't go

1713
01:07:01,490 --> 01:07:00,119
very deep into the cave

1714
01:07:04,309 --> 01:07:01,500
because it would get really really dark

1715
01:07:06,470 --> 01:07:04,319
and the case cave was oriented so the

1716
01:07:07,970 --> 01:07:06,480
mouth of the cave faced to the West so

1717
01:07:11,390 --> 01:07:07,980
we could have seen there and the only

1718
01:07:13,010 --> 01:07:11,400
camping site was a play a flat flat

1719
01:07:15,230 --> 01:07:13,020
place about a hundred yards from this

1720
01:07:17,770 --> 01:07:15,240
from the opening of The Cave so they

1721
01:07:20,210 --> 01:07:17,780
were there at the time from July 1st

1722
01:07:22,730 --> 01:07:20,220
through when the crash supposedly took

1723
01:07:25,250 --> 01:07:22,740
place when all this operation went on

1724
01:07:27,529 --> 01:07:25,260
and then they left I talked to Wesley

1725
01:07:29,950 --> 01:07:27,539
hurt and he said we didn't see anything

1726
01:07:32,150 --> 01:07:29,960
like that and art said in a letter to me

1727
01:07:35,089 --> 01:07:32,160
that he was not a fan of the government

1728
01:07:36,770 --> 01:07:35,099
and if he knew anything he'd tell me

1729
01:07:38,390 --> 01:07:36,780
um Tom found

1730
01:07:41,529 --> 01:07:38,400
um

1731
01:07:44,329 --> 01:07:41,539
a guy named dancing Ted Danson's father

1732
01:07:46,130 --> 01:07:44,339
was a anthropologist or an archaeologist

1733
01:07:47,510 --> 01:07:46,140
he was with him

1734
01:07:49,430 --> 01:07:47,520
um and there was a guy named Herbert

1735
01:07:51,650 --> 01:07:49,440
dick

1736
01:07:53,390 --> 01:07:51,660
and I always when I was writing out

1737
01:07:55,010 --> 01:07:53,400
these places I would always when I

1738
01:07:58,250 --> 01:07:55,020
listed the names it would always be I'd

1739
01:08:01,789 --> 01:07:58,260
always say hurt dick dancing

1740
01:08:02,990 --> 01:08:01,799
uh just for the pure Insanity of having

1741
01:08:05,990 --> 01:08:03,000
some fun

1742
01:08:09,349 --> 01:08:06,000
but we were able to demonstrate that

1743
01:08:12,650 --> 01:08:09,359
that Anderson's story was untrue

1744
01:08:13,730 --> 01:08:12,660
and um there was other things there's a

1745
01:08:17,329 --> 01:08:13,740
lot of other things going on honey

1746
01:08:20,689 --> 01:08:17,339
produced a diary supposedly kept by his

1747
01:08:22,309 --> 01:08:20,699
aunt but the ink was from 1974 so it

1748
01:08:23,809 --> 01:08:22,319
couldn't have been her that had done it

1749
01:08:25,309 --> 01:08:23,819
because she had been killed or as an

1750
01:08:28,309 --> 01:08:25,319
uncle had done it and he'd been killed

1751
01:08:30,709 --> 01:08:28,319
he uh to make me look bad produced a

1752
01:08:33,470 --> 01:08:30,719
phone bill showing that he'd only talked

1753
01:08:35,390 --> 01:08:33,480
to me for 26 minutes on the phone call I

1754
01:08:37,430 --> 01:08:35,400
got a hold of the regular bill

1755
01:08:39,110 --> 01:08:37,440
because it had my phone number on it so

1756
01:08:41,570 --> 01:08:39,120
Southwestern Bell actually sent me a

1757
01:08:44,749 --> 01:08:41,580
copy and I so I had a legitimate copy

1758
01:08:46,789 --> 01:08:44,759
signed by the people at of Southwestern

1759
01:08:48,950 --> 01:08:46,799
Bell showing that my phone call was for

1760
01:08:50,809 --> 01:08:48,960
54 minutes I have a tape of the

1761
01:08:53,169 --> 01:08:50,819
conversation

1762
01:08:55,669 --> 01:08:53,179
um when we asked about the um

1763
01:08:57,410 --> 01:08:55,679
as we got in the conversation I started

1764
01:09:00,289 --> 01:08:57,420
feeding lines because I knew this guy

1765
01:09:06,110 --> 01:09:02,570
um blueberry muffins I take that from

1766
01:09:10,249 --> 01:09:08,809
um the thing from another world movie if

1767
01:09:12,769 --> 01:09:10,259
your stuff completely full of blueberry

1768
01:09:15,470 --> 01:09:12,779
muffins anyway

1769
01:09:18,110 --> 01:09:15,480
you know uh

1770
01:09:20,630 --> 01:09:18,120
uh I had I had asked him questions about

1771
01:09:24,890 --> 01:09:20,640
this and he said at one point that the

1772
01:09:26,209 --> 01:09:24,900
alien eyes were were a Milky blue a very

1773
01:09:28,669 --> 01:09:26,219
light blue

1774
01:09:30,470 --> 01:09:28,679
and I was in the coincidentally it was

1775
01:09:33,590 --> 01:09:30,480
in the bookstore in Roswell New Mexico

1776
01:09:35,570 --> 01:09:33,600
and they had um one of Whitley's

1777
01:09:38,209 --> 01:09:35,580
Bieber's books on

1778
01:09:40,430 --> 01:09:38,219
uh remain on the remainder plow the

1779
01:09:42,709 --> 01:09:40,440
hardback books and a picture of the

1780
01:09:44,590 --> 01:09:42,719
alien with milky blue eyes so I knew

1781
01:09:47,329 --> 01:09:44,600
where Anderson got the Milky blue eyes

1782
01:09:49,610 --> 01:09:47,339
when we called him on that

1783
01:09:51,289 --> 01:09:49,620
others called him on

1784
01:09:53,090 --> 01:09:51,299
that they were murky blue what he said

1785
01:09:55,430 --> 01:09:53,100
was murky blue no he said milky balloon

1786
01:09:57,110 --> 01:09:55,440
I got John Tate pal well I got you on

1787
01:09:58,729 --> 01:09:57,120
tape for 54 minutes

1788
01:09:59,930 --> 01:09:58,739
um and that sort of thing but the whole

1789
01:10:01,610 --> 01:09:59,940
point of this there was so much wrong

1790
01:10:03,350 --> 01:10:01,620
with the Anderson story we were able to

1791
01:10:06,169 --> 01:10:03,360
eliminate it completely and totally we

1792
01:10:08,030 --> 01:10:06,179
we found his anthropology teacher who he

1793
01:10:10,430 --> 01:10:08,040
identified as being on the plains of San

1794
01:10:12,229 --> 01:10:10,440
Agustin when he was not we uh learned

1795
01:10:14,630 --> 01:10:12,239
the the excuse for being there was not

1796
01:10:17,750 --> 01:10:14,640
right we learned that he changed his

1797
01:10:19,310 --> 01:10:17,760
story when uh you look at it it went

1798
01:10:22,850 --> 01:10:19,320
from I think there were two dead aliens

1799
01:10:24,770 --> 01:10:22,860
one was injured and one was okay to

1800
01:10:26,870 --> 01:10:24,780
three dead aliens and all kinds of other

1801
01:10:28,070 --> 01:10:26,880
stuff going on so I mean it just he

1802
01:10:30,110 --> 01:10:28,080
changed the story he couldn't remember

1803
01:10:32,030 --> 01:10:30,120
what he told us from one one story to

1804
01:10:33,770 --> 01:10:32,040
another finally admitted that he forged

1805
01:10:35,750 --> 01:10:33,780
the phone bill to make me look bad and

1806
01:10:38,149 --> 01:10:35,760
I'm thinking well that's a pretty good

1807
01:10:40,669 --> 01:10:38,159
uh indication that he can't be trusted

1808
01:10:42,350 --> 01:10:40,679
so I actually uh went on the radio as

1809
01:10:45,830 --> 01:10:42,360
this whole thing was developing in the

1810
01:10:48,290 --> 01:10:45,840
mid 1990s calling Anderson a um a liar

1811
01:10:50,270 --> 01:10:48,300
hoping he would sue me

1812
01:10:52,490 --> 01:10:50,280
because then I could

1813
01:10:53,209 --> 01:10:52,500
subpoena the records from the high

1814
01:10:55,490 --> 01:10:53,219
school

1815
01:10:56,750 --> 01:10:55,500
to prove that he had taken the

1816
01:11:00,229 --> 01:10:56,760
anthropology of course when he had

1817
01:11:01,790 --> 01:11:00,239
denied it he showed up a um supposedly a

1818
01:11:04,970 --> 01:11:01,800
transcript that showed he didn't take

1819
01:11:07,250 --> 01:11:04,980
the anthropology course but um

1820
01:11:09,070 --> 01:11:07,260
it was clearly it had been it had been

1821
01:11:12,649 --> 01:11:09,080
modified so

1822
01:11:15,290 --> 01:11:12,659
wow that's something so we have to move

1823
01:11:18,050 --> 01:11:15,300
on to your because we we uh we went over

1824
01:11:20,930 --> 01:11:18,060
time which is good I'm enjoying the

1825
01:11:24,290 --> 01:11:20,940
conversation but uh here is your latest

1826
01:11:26,930 --> 01:11:24,300
book and this is a uh updated version

1827
01:11:28,669 --> 01:11:26,940
with all kinds of extras something that

1828
01:11:32,270 --> 01:11:28,679
you wrote originally back in

1829
01:11:36,910 --> 01:11:32,280
2000 was it yes yes well well first of

1830
01:11:42,410 --> 01:11:39,530
it's the one that Philip mantle

1831
01:11:44,229 --> 01:11:42,420
contacted me about uh so let's talk

1832
01:11:46,310 --> 01:11:44,239
about your latest book

1833
01:11:48,470 --> 01:11:46,320
understanding Roswell came out after

1834
01:11:50,750 --> 01:11:48,480
that and the latest one is called 1973

1835
01:11:52,790 --> 01:11:50,760
and it deals with the the UFO sightings

1836
01:11:53,870 --> 01:11:52,800
in 1973 and I always think of it as a

1837
01:11:56,450 --> 01:11:53,880
companion book to some of the things

1838
01:11:58,510 --> 01:11:56,460
Philip is doing with um

1839
01:12:01,669 --> 01:11:58,520
um

1840
01:12:03,530 --> 01:12:01,679
not Hixson Parker Calvin Parker who's a

1841
01:12:05,390 --> 01:12:03,540
very nice guy and I you know chatted

1842
01:12:08,030 --> 01:12:05,400
with him a number of times

1843
01:12:10,430 --> 01:12:08,040
um but yes the the Washington National

1844
01:12:12,709 --> 01:12:10,440
book was updated with new information it

1845
01:12:13,910 --> 01:12:12,719
talks about the um basically the summer

1846
01:12:18,350 --> 01:12:13,920
of 19

1847
01:12:19,250 --> 01:12:18,360
52 the UFO sightings over Washington D.C

1848
01:12:21,169 --> 01:12:19,260
um

1849
01:12:24,110 --> 01:12:21,179
well now I'm looking for your latest

1850
01:12:26,330 --> 01:12:24,120
books that was the book that uh that

1851
01:12:28,090 --> 01:12:26,340
Philip uh told me to

1852
01:12:31,490 --> 01:12:28,100
to push

1853
01:12:34,010 --> 01:12:31,500
so what's the name of your latest book I

1854
01:12:36,229 --> 01:12:34,020
think the latest one from from um Philip

1855
01:12:38,149 --> 01:12:36,239
is understanding Roswell

1856
01:12:40,910 --> 01:12:38,159
okay

1857
01:12:42,590 --> 01:12:40,920
um the the 1973 book about the the

1858
01:12:44,450 --> 01:12:42,600
sightings from 1973 will be coming out

1859
01:12:46,910 --> 01:12:44,460
in the fall

1860
01:12:48,890 --> 01:12:46,920
um here it is here well that's you can

1861
01:12:51,169 --> 01:12:48,900
get it in audio books and you can get it

1862
01:12:52,910 --> 01:12:51,179
on Kindle you can get a nice hardback

1863
01:12:55,010 --> 01:12:52,920
copy which are really really expensive

1864
01:12:57,470 --> 01:12:55,020
and I actually paid to get one because I

1865
01:12:59,870 --> 01:12:57,480
thought it was cool well yeah and you

1866
01:13:01,149 --> 01:12:59,880
have to sign it too sign your own book

1867
01:13:04,610 --> 01:13:01,159
yeah

1868
01:13:07,669 --> 01:13:04,620
but but like I said it deals it deals

1869
01:13:09,290 --> 01:13:07,679
with the Roswell book deals with um

1870
01:13:11,630 --> 01:13:09,300
a lot of the stuff that's kind of

1871
01:13:13,610 --> 01:13:11,640
overlooked in the Roswell investigation

1872
01:13:17,270 --> 01:13:13,620
and kind of weeds out some of the things

1873
01:13:18,770 --> 01:13:17,280
that got awry in the investigations

1874
01:13:20,390 --> 01:13:18,780
um I've always said every member of

1875
01:13:21,590 --> 01:13:20,400
Colonel Blanchard staff we were able to

1876
01:13:24,050 --> 01:13:21,600
talk to

1877
01:13:27,470 --> 01:13:24,060
about this with one exception said it

1878
01:13:29,930 --> 01:13:27,480
was extra frustrial and that one one

1879
01:13:31,669 --> 01:13:29,940
exception is a guy named Barrel claw and

1880
01:13:33,410 --> 01:13:31,679
he was I don't remember whether he was

1881
01:13:35,570 --> 01:13:33,420
the executive officer or the deputy

1882
01:13:37,490 --> 01:13:35,580
Commander it was one of the he was he

1883
01:13:39,470 --> 01:13:37,500
was either the number two or the number

1884
01:13:41,270 --> 01:13:39,480
three guy at Roswell and he said no it

1885
01:13:43,729 --> 01:13:41,280
wasn't true but everybody else we talked

1886
01:13:44,450 --> 01:13:43,739
to said yeah it happened

1887
01:13:47,030 --> 01:13:44,460
um

1888
01:13:48,830 --> 01:13:47,040
yeah and it was extraterrestrial Edwin

1889
01:13:50,090 --> 01:13:48,840
Easley who was a Provost Marshal and for

1890
01:13:53,030 --> 01:13:50,100
those of you don't understand promos

1891
01:13:55,790 --> 01:13:53,040
marginally it's like the chief of police

1892
01:13:57,290 --> 01:13:55,800
Marshall is the military guy and talking

1893
01:13:59,570 --> 01:13:57,300
to him he would have been responsible

1894
01:14:01,790 --> 01:13:59,580
for security and knew what was going on

1895
01:14:03,530 --> 01:14:01,800
and I asked him at one point are we

1896
01:14:04,850 --> 01:14:03,540
following the right path and he said

1897
01:14:06,350 --> 01:14:04,860
well

1898
01:14:07,610 --> 01:14:06,360
let me put it this way it's not the

1899
01:14:09,290 --> 01:14:07,620
wrong path meaning of course it's

1900
01:14:10,790 --> 01:14:09,300
extraterrestrial so I mean here's the

1901
01:14:12,890 --> 01:14:10,800
here's the guy who's responsible for

1902
01:14:14,689 --> 01:14:12,900
security

1903
01:14:16,250 --> 01:14:14,699
um but we looked I looked at all of that

1904
01:14:17,870 --> 01:14:16,260
stuff in the Roswell case I looked at

1905
01:14:19,070 --> 01:14:17,880
the histories of some of the guys that I

1906
01:14:22,450 --> 01:14:19,080
could find

1907
01:14:25,310 --> 01:14:22,460
one of the guys I think it was Payne

1908
01:14:27,890 --> 01:14:25,320
he uh he was killed in the Korean War

1909
01:14:29,149 --> 01:14:27,900
they were testing some kind of big hairy

1910
01:14:34,010 --> 01:14:29,159
ass bomb

1911
01:14:36,470 --> 01:14:34,020
uh and it detonated prematurely and blew

1912
01:14:39,110 --> 01:14:36,480
up the aircraft wow and he was killed in

1913
01:14:40,850 --> 01:14:39,120
that one of the guys the story was one

1914
01:14:42,350 --> 01:14:40,860
of them had disappeared into the Bermuda

1915
01:14:43,970 --> 01:14:42,360
Triangle that turns out that's not quite

1916
01:14:45,470 --> 01:14:43,980
right

1917
01:14:48,890 --> 01:14:45,480
um they were transferring a bunch of

1918
01:14:51,169 --> 01:14:48,900
guys I think I think it was

1919
01:14:52,790 --> 01:14:51,179
I don't remember which guy it is now but

1920
01:14:55,669 --> 01:14:52,800
they're printing a bunch of guys from

1921
01:14:57,890 --> 01:14:55,679
Roswell to a base in England and the

1922
01:15:00,410 --> 01:14:57,900
plane went down in the Atlantic Ocean

1923
01:15:02,030 --> 01:15:00,420
and a lot of the people survived the

1924
01:15:03,530 --> 01:15:02,040
crash and there was a plane circling

1925
01:15:07,610 --> 01:15:03,540
overhead for a while and he had to leave

1926
01:15:09,530 --> 01:15:07,620
and by the time the rescue ships got

1927
01:15:11,870 --> 01:15:09,540
there everything was gone I couldn't

1928
01:15:13,910 --> 01:15:11,880
find anybody couldn't find anything but

1929
01:15:15,290 --> 01:15:13,920
it was a good six or seven hundred miles

1930
01:15:16,550 --> 01:15:15,300
from the three minute triangles had

1931
01:15:19,250 --> 01:15:16,560
nothing to do with the Bermuda Triangle

1932
01:15:21,410 --> 01:15:19,260
it was just an aircraft accident

1933
01:15:23,990 --> 01:15:21,420
um so you know it looks at that sort of

1934
01:15:25,970 --> 01:15:24,000
thing it looks at depth again I think it

1935
01:15:28,189 --> 01:15:25,980
talks about the project Mogul nonsense

1936
01:15:32,090 --> 01:15:28,199
it talked about some of the witnesses

1937
01:15:35,990 --> 01:15:32,100
who have come forward that we believe

1938
01:15:38,149 --> 01:15:36,000
um are credible and give you a a sort of

1939
01:15:41,390 --> 01:15:38,159
a different perspective into the Roswell

1940
01:15:43,729 --> 01:15:41,400
case and if you and if you

1941
01:15:46,390 --> 01:15:43,739
put it together with uh Roswell in the

1942
01:15:49,310 --> 01:15:46,400
21st century you get a a

1943
01:15:53,090 --> 01:15:49,320
much larger picture of the in-depth the

1944
01:15:55,010 --> 01:15:53,100
research that's gone on I I mean

1945
01:15:58,430 --> 01:15:55,020
the the

1946
01:15:59,990 --> 01:15:58,440
Philip Philip doesn't like footnotes so

1947
01:16:01,910 --> 01:16:00,000
um in understanding Roswell I had to put

1948
01:16:03,830 --> 01:16:01,920
the sources kind of in the text but in

1949
01:16:06,290 --> 01:16:03,840
in Roswell in the 21st century I think

1950
01:16:08,390 --> 01:16:06,300
there's like a thousand footnotes

1951
01:16:09,830 --> 01:16:08,400
so you know you get the sources you

1952
01:16:12,290 --> 01:16:09,840
understand where the information came

1953
01:16:14,870 --> 01:16:12,300
from you understand how we collected it

1954
01:16:16,610 --> 01:16:14,880
we understand why we believed it one of

1955
01:16:17,330 --> 01:16:16,620
the examples is

1956
01:16:20,270 --> 01:16:17,340
um

1957
01:16:23,510 --> 01:16:20,280
Frank Joyce who was a radio station guy

1958
01:16:25,130 --> 01:16:23,520
in Roswell kgfl in 1947 talked about his

1959
01:16:26,750 --> 01:16:25,140
meeting with Brazzle

1960
01:16:29,689 --> 01:16:26,760
in the station

1961
01:16:32,630 --> 01:16:29,699
on the Wednesday after the story came

1962
01:16:33,590 --> 01:16:32,640
out that the uh it was um a weather

1963
01:16:35,990 --> 01:16:33,600
balloon

1964
01:16:36,610 --> 01:16:36,000
and

1965
01:16:39,290 --> 01:16:36,620
um

1966
01:16:42,050 --> 01:16:39,300
Brazil's talking to Joyce in the radio

1967
01:16:44,090 --> 01:16:42,060
station and they he wrestles getting the

1968
01:16:45,890 --> 01:16:44,100
new weather balloon story and he's as

1969
01:16:47,810 --> 01:16:45,900
he's leaving

1970
01:16:48,770 --> 01:16:47,820
brows will supposedly turned to Joyce

1971
01:16:50,270 --> 01:16:48,780
and said well you know how they talk

1972
01:16:51,110 --> 01:16:50,280
about little green man well they weren't

1973
01:16:53,090 --> 01:16:51,120
green

1974
01:16:54,890 --> 01:16:53,100
and then he leaves so the question

1975
01:16:57,950 --> 01:16:54,900
becomes when did the idea of Little

1976
01:17:00,350 --> 01:16:57,960
Green Men enter the Lexicon

1977
01:17:03,709 --> 01:17:00,360
you know what Brazil have said something

1978
01:17:05,870 --> 01:17:03,719
like that in 1947. and so there's a long

1979
01:17:07,790 --> 01:17:05,880
footnote that explains

1980
01:17:09,370 --> 01:17:07,800
the evolution of the idea of the little

1981
01:17:11,689 --> 01:17:09,380
green men

1982
01:17:13,910 --> 01:17:11,699
so I mean that gives you an idea of the

1983
01:17:16,370 --> 01:17:13,920
kind of research we engaged in trying to

1984
01:17:17,870 --> 01:17:16,380
learn exactly what what was going on and

1985
01:17:20,030 --> 01:17:17,880
we discovered that the idea of Little

1986
01:17:21,790 --> 01:17:20,040
Green Men goes back into actually

1987
01:17:24,830 --> 01:17:21,800
mythology

1988
01:17:26,810 --> 01:17:24,840
the green men were the forest dwellers

1989
01:17:29,810 --> 01:17:26,820
in England I think it was and then it

1990
01:17:33,290 --> 01:17:29,820
evolved into the aliens uh John Carter

1991
01:17:35,149 --> 01:17:33,300
on Mars the Edgar Weiss Burroughs

1992
01:17:38,870 --> 01:17:35,159
series it began with Princess and Mars

1993
01:17:41,209 --> 01:17:38,880
in 1913 had a race of green men on Mars

1994
01:17:44,570 --> 01:17:41,219
for example there was a Popeye cartoon

1995
01:17:47,149 --> 01:17:44,580
in 1938 where the alien creatures are

1996
01:17:49,669 --> 01:17:47,159
green so it was something that had been

1997
01:17:50,750 --> 01:17:49,679
in the electicon for a

1998
01:17:54,050 --> 01:17:50,760
um

1999
01:17:56,470 --> 01:17:54,060
long long time uh did I include the El

2000
01:17:59,689 --> 01:17:56,480
chap description of the UFO

2001
01:18:01,189 --> 01:17:59,699
I thought that is pardon me I don't

2002
01:18:04,250 --> 01:18:01,199
understand that what that means do you

2003
01:18:07,970 --> 01:18:04,260
know what that is the Pentagon spokesman

2004
01:18:09,890 --> 01:18:07,980
for UFOs in the in 1952 I see and I

2005
01:18:11,030 --> 01:18:09,900
talked to out shop and here's an

2006
01:18:12,470 --> 01:18:11,040
interesting thing out I was talking

2007
01:18:14,270 --> 01:18:12,480
about chop and we were talking about the

2008
01:18:16,010 --> 01:18:14,280
movie UFO because El Chapo's in the

2009
01:18:18,050 --> 01:18:16,020
movie I mean not him personally but he's

2010
01:18:20,330 --> 01:18:18,060
represented as a character in the movie

2011
01:18:21,590 --> 01:18:20,340
UFO and I was talking to him and he said

2012
01:18:23,270 --> 01:18:21,600
well you know he hasn't seen the movie

2013
01:18:26,390 --> 01:18:23,280
in a long time and he said would you

2014
01:18:28,189 --> 01:18:26,400
like a copy of it excited in videotape

2015
01:18:30,950 --> 01:18:28,199
and he said yeah I sent him a copy of

2016
01:18:33,890 --> 01:18:30,960
UFO but I talked to I talked to him chop

2017
01:18:35,810 --> 01:18:33,900
never really described UFOs to me he

2018
01:18:36,890 --> 01:18:35,820
talked about what went on in the radar

2019
01:18:39,350 --> 01:18:36,900
room

2020
01:18:40,850 --> 01:18:39,360
at the Pentagon on the second second

2021
01:18:42,770 --> 01:18:40,860
Saturday night

2022
01:18:44,330 --> 01:18:42,780
he and both Dewey fornay were in the

2023
01:18:46,669 --> 01:18:44,340
radio or the radar room I'm sorry the

2024
01:18:47,689 --> 01:18:46,679
radar room when the the intercepts took

2025
01:18:50,030 --> 01:18:47,699
place

2026
01:18:51,890 --> 01:18:50,040
and so they were describing what they

2027
01:18:54,229 --> 01:18:51,900
were seeing on the radar scope said how

2028
01:18:56,390 --> 01:18:54,239
that related to the attempted intercepts

2029
01:18:58,490 --> 01:18:56,400
and what other people were saying seeing

2030
01:18:59,870 --> 01:18:58,500
on the ground they had called them they

2031
01:19:02,270 --> 01:18:59,880
were talking airline pilots trying to

2032
01:19:03,530 --> 01:19:02,280
get them to can you see a light there

2033
01:19:06,890 --> 01:19:03,540
should be a light out at this location

2034
01:19:08,750 --> 01:19:06,900
and at one point in The Intercept uh the

2035
01:19:10,070 --> 01:19:08,760
the UFO sort of surrounded the fighter

2036
01:19:12,110 --> 01:19:10,080
plane

2037
01:19:14,450 --> 01:19:12,120
um and that sort of thing both chopping

2038
01:19:17,030 --> 01:19:14,460
chop and I don't remember which one it

2039
01:19:18,649 --> 01:19:17,040
was one of them was mentioned something

2040
01:19:20,090 --> 01:19:18,659
you know got really hairy what happened

2041
01:19:21,890 --> 01:19:20,100
and he said I think he used the word

2042
01:19:23,570 --> 01:19:21,900
gruesome and he said well I can't tell

2043
01:19:25,010 --> 01:19:23,580
you that and I was talking to the other

2044
01:19:27,229 --> 01:19:25,020
one and I don't remember which was which

2045
01:19:28,790 --> 01:19:27,239
and I said you know I'll Chopper do it

2046
01:19:30,530 --> 01:19:28,800
for me is tell me about the one one got

2047
01:19:32,750 --> 01:19:30,540
really gruesome oh yeah fighter plane

2048
01:19:34,850 --> 01:19:32,760
got surrounded by the UFO so

2049
01:19:38,450 --> 01:19:34,860
he figured I already knew about it so he

2050
01:19:41,090 --> 01:19:38,460
told me about it but but uh you know

2051
01:19:43,790 --> 01:19:41,100
chop I do I did talk to chop about this

2052
01:19:46,430 --> 01:19:43,800
I talked to Dewey fournet about this

2053
01:19:49,490 --> 01:19:46,440
um I I you know I had access to the Air

2054
01:19:51,470 --> 01:19:49,500
Force records I had access to interview

2055
01:19:54,530 --> 01:19:51,480
with one of the fighter pilots that was

2056
01:19:55,970 --> 01:19:54,540
uh involved in the intercepts and talked

2057
01:19:57,290 --> 01:19:55,980
to an awful lot of people about that

2058
01:19:59,030 --> 01:19:57,300
talk to people out in the Northwest

2059
01:20:01,729 --> 01:19:59,040
about the settings that took place on

2060
01:20:04,130 --> 01:20:01,739
over the July 4th weekend nineteen oh

2061
01:20:05,930 --> 01:20:04,140
that was 1947. keep getting my dates

2062
01:20:08,090 --> 01:20:05,940
mixed up didn't talk to them talk to

2063
01:20:11,030 --> 01:20:08,100
other people people all over the place

2064
01:20:13,189 --> 01:20:11,040
ah it's it's uh

2065
01:20:14,990 --> 01:20:13,199
a very very interesting story I think

2066
01:20:16,490 --> 01:20:15,000
the Washington Nationals are a very

2067
01:20:18,709 --> 01:20:16,500
important case

2068
01:20:21,050 --> 01:20:18,719
uh because of the radar confirmation the

2069
01:20:24,229 --> 01:20:21,060
number of witnesses involved talk to I

2070
01:20:25,910 --> 01:20:24,239
talked to some people who were uh

2071
01:20:28,270 --> 01:20:25,920
um in

2072
01:20:31,010 --> 01:20:28,280
sort of forced to change their stories

2073
01:20:32,570 --> 01:20:31,020
after it came out military people who

2074
01:20:33,709 --> 01:20:32,580
were involved and saw things and then

2075
01:20:35,030 --> 01:20:33,719
changed their story you know the

2076
01:20:36,709 --> 01:20:35,040
original story was this and then they

2077
01:20:39,310 --> 01:20:36,719
changed the story later

2078
01:20:41,930 --> 01:20:39,320
Under Pressure I think so how about that

2079
01:20:44,649 --> 01:20:41,940
but we we can look at any number of

2080
01:20:47,570 --> 01:20:44,659
sightings cases where that has happened

2081
01:20:49,189 --> 01:20:47,580
so it's nothing that uh that

2082
01:20:49,970 --> 01:20:49,199
extraordinary

2083
01:20:53,689 --> 01:20:49,980
um

2084
01:20:55,130 --> 01:20:53,699
I just had one in my mind that was just

2085
01:20:58,430 --> 01:20:55,140
really really

2086
01:21:02,149 --> 01:20:58,440
uh a good example of that

2087
01:21:04,209 --> 01:21:02,159
oh yeah um uh the sheriff sheriff at

2088
01:21:07,130 --> 01:21:04,219
level land

2089
01:21:09,110 --> 01:21:07,140
always hated that name

2090
01:21:10,910 --> 01:21:09,120
um prior to the Air Force investigating

2091
01:21:12,830 --> 01:21:10,920
arrived Clem was talking about how he

2092
01:21:15,470 --> 01:21:12,840
had seen the object close fairly close

2093
01:21:17,330 --> 01:21:15,480
it was oval shaped and bright red after

2094
01:21:19,729 --> 01:21:17,340
the Air Force investigator got there

2095
01:21:21,890 --> 01:21:19,739
well I just saw a streak of light

2096
01:21:23,270 --> 01:21:21,900
um you know 900 yards away it didn't

2097
01:21:25,250 --> 01:21:23,280
really see much of thing it was in sight

2098
01:21:26,930 --> 01:21:25,260
for two seconds later he told Don

2099
01:21:28,669 --> 01:21:26,940
Berliner and got back to the well this

2100
01:21:30,649 --> 01:21:28,679
is what I really saw type thing so we

2101
01:21:32,689 --> 01:21:30,659
but we have him talking about what he'd

2102
01:21:34,790 --> 01:21:32,699
seen prior to the Air Force getting

2103
01:21:37,390 --> 01:21:34,800
there once the Air Force left he had

2104
01:21:40,189 --> 01:21:37,400
changed his story to something that was

2105
01:21:42,410 --> 01:21:40,199
different I I outlined all that in a

2106
01:21:44,090 --> 01:21:42,420
book called um encounter in the desert

2107
01:21:49,930 --> 01:21:44,100
which is no I'm sorry I'm not called

2108
01:21:55,370 --> 01:21:53,510
yeah yeah well Kevin thank you so much

2109
01:21:59,030 --> 01:21:55,380
it's been a it's been a good night we

2110
01:22:00,229 --> 01:21:59,040
had a decent long conversation and uh I

2111
01:22:03,050 --> 01:22:00,239
wish you luck with your book I'm gonna

2112
01:22:04,430 --> 01:22:03,060
put both links uh since I already have

2113
01:22:06,890 --> 01:22:04,440
that one linked in there I'll put both

2114
01:22:09,290 --> 01:22:06,900
links to both books in there okay or

2115
01:22:13,250 --> 01:22:09,300
maybe directly to your uh all your books

2116
01:22:16,130 --> 01:22:13,260
on Amazon well the the books you go to

2117
01:22:19,130 --> 01:22:16,140
Amazon and type my name in it yeah it

2118
01:22:20,930 --> 01:22:19,140
will come up if you type in Eric helm

2119
01:22:24,410 --> 01:22:20,940
you'll find a lot of action adventure

2120
01:22:26,810 --> 01:22:24,420
books I wrote yeah okay that's right

2121
01:22:28,850 --> 01:22:26,820
yeah all right well anyway it's been

2122
01:22:30,470 --> 01:22:28,860
great Kevin thank you very much well

2123
01:22:32,870 --> 01:22:30,480
thank you I appreciate I enjoy the

2124
01:22:35,750 --> 01:22:32,880
conversations yes same here as always

2125
01:22:38,209 --> 01:22:35,760
all right you take care you too all

2126
01:22:40,189 --> 01:22:38,219
right good night all right so everyone

2127
01:22:43,130 --> 01:22:40,199
will be back next week as I mentioned

2128
01:22:44,850 --> 01:22:43,140
with Mario woods and remember to keep

2129
01:22:56,130 --> 01:22:44,860
your eyes to the sky

2130
01:22:56,140 --> 01:23:00,250
[Music]